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Alternative to shallow well jet pump/pressure tank combo on cistern?

Discussion in 'The DIY Room' started by wildwest, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. Horkn

    Horkn

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  2. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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  3. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    HR working 16 hour plus days in rental unit as state government instituted new heating tank regs.. Horkn a smart fella if not fixed by Thanksgiving call I will come bring pumps in suitcase and install Flippin thing.... sorry if not :D myself been in basements all day must have done 50 flights stair today in short owweee
     
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  4. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Darn snails. Setting off switches. You understand, I know.
     
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  5. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    Hey, No Worries!! Got by 4 years, we're fine, I'm crafting a new set up to improve things:dancer: Take care of you, your bride and daughter and doggie, ok? Yikes on climbing all those stairs with the concrete :eek: and rest well! Sorry to hear about big brother ordering you new oil tank requirements :picard:
     
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  6. Eric VW

    Eric VW Moderator

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  7. Eric VW

    Eric VW Moderator

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  8. bushpilot

    bushpilot

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    I have a PumpSaver on my well pump circuit, which turns the well pump off when it senses a dry well. It does that by comparing the normal current profile with the dry well current draw. It works very well on my well pump.

    Perhaps something like this will work for your pump?



    This solution does not involve any water contact.

    If it were me, I'd do the low tech switch first, for shutting off the pump. And the ultrasonic monitor to keep track of the level.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
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  9. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    You Hoarders are So Kind, Thank You.

    ALL of you!

    We are discussing logistics between :



    #1
    link to this from the above Eric's article:Normally Open Float Switch 120V

    And

    We are leaning toward the #2. I'd normally lean towards #1 but the logistics of running the line from the cistern to the pump (and drilling holes in the galvanized cistern for the cord) are a bit daunting for us right now. Going to sleep on it.
     
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  10. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Yes a NO switch will be "on" when it is floating (high water) and off when it is hanging (low water)
    You will want to hang it from the cistern roof so that it hangs to the minimum water level. That is roughly where it will shut the pump off. Then you will want to attach the float cord to the wall (about 6-12" above the float bulb) or some thing that is unmovable. This will make so the float is "on" ASAP when the water level rises, and keeps it from banging around too much while the tank is being filled too. The float will be submerged most of the time but it will still be upside down ("float" position) and have the pump switch powered up.
    As for the ultrasonic sensor mentioned...I don't like them...we had a bunch of them at work and one by one they have all been eliminated. Very sensitive to "interference", might be steam, might be a spider...but constantly throwing false signals, real PITA. Seem very vulnerable to lightning too. Since then we have replaced them with 4-20MA level transducers, much more reliable...pricey though.
     
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  11. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Yes a NO switch will be "on" when it is floating (high water) and off when it is hanging (low water)
    You will want to hang it from the cistern roof so that it hangs to the minimum water level. That is roughly where it will shut the pump off. Then you will want to attach the float cord to the wall (about 6-12" above the float bulb) or some thing that is unmovable. This will make so the float is "on" ASAP when the water level rises, and keeps it from banging around too much while the tank is being filled too. The float will be submerged most of the time but it will still be upside down ("float" position) and have the pump switch powered up.
    As for the ultrasonic sensor mentioned...I don't like them...we had a bunch of them at work and one by one they have all been eliminated. Very sensitive to "interference", might be steam, might be a spider...but constantly throwing false signals, real PITA. Seem very vulnerable to lightning too. Since then we have replaced them with 4-20MA level transducers, much more reliable...pricey though.
     
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  12. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    Aaaaaah Women!
     
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  13. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    I believe I clarified NO and NC in post #2 :handshake:
    Aaaaaaah Men! :rofl: :lol:
     
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  14. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    Sincerely, I now realize you posted earlier and told me and I apologize, I managed to confuse myself after all the googling using terms I'm not familiar with yesterday and today. Thank you for sharing awesome advice for me, I appreciate it.

    And, take a peek at this thread, it's great for some good belly laughs!

    Ahhh women.....
     
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  15. Horkn

    Horkn

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  16. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    The ultrasonic monitor is on the way, and PumpSaver is too, the company recommended a slightly different model. So, the pump we are limping along will be protected soon, and I can sock some funds away for the next couple months towards the new setup and bigger trap door.

    I made a couple calls, the iron/bronze impellers are pretty much only available on commercial pumps these days. They were being phased out when I worked at the swimming pool company back in the early 90's and gone now.
     
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  17. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Any reason you don't go with a diaphragm pump for the future? They can't burn out from running dry.
     
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  18. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    Hi Burninator!

    The reason is lack of knowledge on plumbing beyond sweating a joint.... (ya CleanFire two torch heads and a bottle that fits out there....somewhere.....did most of the hot water baseboards back then on a 3000sqft home- ancient but they still work). I got confucious on them, the gallon flow is different than the pump I have, and also remembering my commercial inline diaphram air pump for the fish hatchery, then confused myself more thinking that thing ran 24/7 but the Solar one will only run on demand. So, if the gal flow is 8.6 into a pressure bladder set at 30 psi, :doh: or do I need a pressure tank with the Solar ? :picard:And is gal flow enough psi to run my dishwasher and washing machine etc.
     
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  19. Horkn

    Horkn

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    There's many ways to do it. That's for sure. The 2 115v ac pumps of the solar brand are both 45 psi. I don't think you'd need a pressure tank.
     
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  20. CleanFire

    CleanFire

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    That's difficult to answer w/o seeing the setup,

    Pump flow rate vs. size of pressure tank determines run time of the pump motor.

    Larger tank = more motor (pump) run time,
    Lower flow rate pump = more motor run time.

    Optimally, the pump is sized accordingly to the pressure tank, and the volume of water it holds.

    Pressure tank too small: short-cycling of pump motor.
    Pressure tank too big: extended run time of pump motor.

    Either is not "good" for a pump motor, and will shorten it's lifespan accordingly.

    re: pump w/ stainless impeller: Goulds makes such a pump. * We have a Goulds submersible well pump, which replaced the (prior owner) Goulds pump, which lasted 18 years here.

    re: Solar - a one-way valve, fitted to the cold inlet line feed -> to the solar loop ( * Domestic hot water storage tank, see below ) "should" prevent any pressure or back-flow issues.

    re: Solar: it should be a ( closed-loop ) system: the water in the heated solar loop, should never "touch" the domestic hot water side of the loop.. Much like using any other external heat source for domestic hot water: wood boiler, etc.

    A Heat Exchanger should be transferring the heat from the (closed solar loop) to the domestic (hot water) storage tank.

    Disclaimer: i.am.not.a.plumber . I do our home plumbing repair, but also know folks in the biz, and ask for their opinion, guidance, and help when unsure - I've 'bartered' a fair amount of IT work this way, over the years.

    Pump & Tank Systems - Red Lion They have EXCELLENT customer service, but parts or dealers are a couple hours away. One misstep, the pump runs dry and melts all the plastic parts. We've had 2 versions of the 50.

    I'd give these folks a call, sounds like they're local / may be able to refer you to someone recommended in your area ..

    We like to DIY lots of things, but plumbing system components (pumps, tanks, controllers) get expensive.. and experience counts: at least to discuss options available to you.

    * None of above is to discount the great help you're getting in this thread. But pumps, tanks, etc. - they really should be sized to your specific needs properly.
     
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