Soapstone wood insert, please help me decide... any experience?

Short version:
Anyone use soapstone wood fireplace as a primary heat source? Give me your good, bad, and worse about your experience.

Long version:
After a few bad propane bills from a propane insert(first year owning house), I'm looking at converting to a wood insert next year. I am replacing an existing Regency propane insert(unknown model or rating) The fireplace insert is the only thing in the house using propane.

I'm just at snow level for sierras(east side of Placerville, California) I got two ~6" snow storms this winter and a few chilly 25 degree nights. I'm down in a ravine(~100 foot deep) I've been told there could be "drafting issues" for fireplaces.

The house is a nice cozy 700sq-ft. Fireplace is centered between two rooms at either end. Each room has a 220V wall heater to augment the fireplace.

The house currently has poor insulation. While the windows are dual pane, the floor has NONE and the walls used “Balsam wool”. Basically bags of wood fiber... the problem is they have "flattened" in the walls so the walls are probably half full. The attic space has ~4" deep blown insulation with a radiant barrier installed. Fixing insulation issues is on my list of upgrades.

The fireplace and chimney were probably constructed in the 40s or 50s along with the rest of the house. I have a picture of the chimney after this. From floor of house to top of showing rock is ~12 foot. The exposed terracotta leads me to believe that the fire place is lined(not confirmed).

One thing worth noting: In the next 5 to maybe 10 years I am intending to add a second story behind the chimney that will go to the right in the above picture. Expecting to add 400-500 square feet.

I am looking at Hearth Stone wood inserts. Specifically:
Smaller Morgan(1200 sq-ft rated)
http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/store/wood-products/wood-inserts/morgan-wood-insert

Larger Clydesdale(2000 sq-ft rated)
http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/store/wood-products/wood-inserts/clydesdale-wood-insert

I've already verified both will fit and the price difference including install isn't too bad.

But I went to talk to another place that pushed Napoleon(among other brands) and didn't care for soapstone. The two "complaints" they had about soapstone was slow heat up and long heat burn off... that in addition to the expense. Basically played off soapstone as hyped up and there was a reason not many vendors had them.

What is your experience with soapstone?

Any concerns of "quick heat up" cracking the soapstone?

Is it possible to have too large(oversize) a fireplace? I'm eyeballing the larger unit(rated 2000 sq-ft) for a potential longer burn time/heat soak over the smaller unit(rated 1200 sq-ft)

One other odd question. I hate the current install of the electric/propane lines. They wrap around the chimney and go in through the ash door. One person mentioned the reason for this was possible concern over knocking the chimney over when drilling a hole through it. Another place said no issue. Is this really a concern?

I've heard that the Hearth Stone have a bad hinge/latching system.

Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

Welcome to the forum Lil' John. I can not answer your questions. Perhaps if you posted this in the Modern EPA stoves and Fireplace section? Or a mod could move it. You would surely have someone chime in with some insight. Again welcome to the forum.

 

Those are cast iron inserts with soapstone for firebrick. I don't think soapstone would change the heat cycle much if at all.

Yes you can oversize your stove. But I think its better to have one a little to big and have to build small fires than to small and be cold.

I'm not sure if I understand your oddball question. Got any pics?

Yes hearthstone has some bad hinges on the soapstone stoves but I don't know how they are on their inserts.

Be sure to have a block off plate installed in the fireplace to keep the heat from going up the flue! And these EPA stoves really need dry wood and good draft to perform optimally.

Good luck and welcome to FHC!

 

To all, thanks for the welcome.

Good point... I will see what I can do to track down a mod

Basically, one fireplace place was telling me that there was a concern over drilling a ~1" hole through older fireplaces because of the mortar. Basically was telling me there was a chance of knocking down the chimney because the mortar might weaken. But another said there was no concern over drilling and more than likely it was a "lazy" installing that circled the fireplace. I can't blame them, I hated hammer drilling 18" foundation holes

I'll see what I can do to get a picture or two of the install that ticks me off.

 

I have the Clydesdale, have had no issues with stones cracking. You have to do small break in fires every fall this slowly drives moisture out of the stone, really no different than any shoulder season burn.
I recall the stones actually looking they were sweating when I did my first fire - burned the spruce pallet that it came on.

No issues here with hinges, the blower does occasionally develop a harmonic rattle - I fixed this by shimming the base of the shroud with some pennies to the hearth floor.
It really seems more of a heat cycle harmonic that occurs briefly during a warm up cycle.

Wood species will dictate burn times softwoods ~3-4hrs and the bower will continue for another 5-6hours, hardwoods 8-10hrs (overnight burn) and the blower will run till the following afternoon.

 

Def agree oversize...i have the heritage..which i love..just a little on the small size fer me...dont get me wrong it throws heat..just a lil small thats all..also a minimum of 2 cu ft firebox if you want anything that would remotely give you an overniter..preferably 2.5 +..you will need to burn dry wood first and foremost...most woods dry between 12 and 18 months..oak...well thats another story..24 to 36 depending on split size...o..and welcome..great bunch of guys here..

 

I had a hearthstone heritage freestander for several (about 7) years and pushed over 25 cords of wood through it using it as 100% heat for my 1700SF.

The stones don't crack from rapid heatup, they crack from overfire and dropping the stove and every once in awhile from just plain bad luck. The stone stoves take a long time to heat up. Much longer than steel stoves with little or no benefit on the tail end. Save your money, don't consider the stone as value added.

I dumped the stove when it became apparent that it would not last another few years without a complete tear down and rebuild. The hinges were worn and the latch system sucked. To repair either would not be possible without complete tear down. That stove was not made to be used for primary heat.

Sure looked nice though. Wasted a lot of wood too.

 

Thank you again for input.

Backwoods, some of what you say on the "bad mouthing" is absolutely true. If you have stock you want to get rid of, you don't play up others

I'm trying to find a "good" mix of reviews... the hard part is usually those who have a bad experience comment load and often while those who have good experience don't comment often.

The slow heat up was an expected trade off so I am sort of discounting that complaint in my research.

The one complaint I've heard is the hinge and latch as I've noted originally.

The other was a shipping issue but it isn't clear if this was the dealer or Hearthstone.

 

I will have some input to this thread, but it will have to wait until the 20th of Sept.
I'm going from a cast iron stove with 4 pieces of firebrick on the back wall of the
firebox to a steel stove with an entire interior lined with soapstone, as well as a small
on the outside of the stove. I'm sure my review will be favorable towards soapstone and
most likely the company that produced it.

 

John before everyone attempts to sell/dissuade you on the finer points of each stove can you give us an idea of your main wood source - hardwood vs. softwood trees in your area.
From what I've gathered (from other forum users) over the years catalytic stoves will be much more wood/heat effective for a predominately pine fuel source - just guessing at your location in the western Rockies that conifers will be your fuel source

 

Ill throw in my $.02 worth here. I grew up with an old steel smoke dragon and it kept us warm all through the winter with no problems. I bought my house a couple years ago and quickly got tired of propane and electric baseboard heat so I started looking for a woodstove just like I had when I grew up but then I met Dennis (Backwoods Savage) and a bunch of other folks that turned me onto soapstone stoves I was intrigued and my wife loved the way it looked so we went for it and Ive got to say Im very happy with it. One of the biggest things Ive learned with any stove and especially with these new EPA stoves is you absolutely have to have properly seasoned wood this will get you the best operation possible from your stove and help insure your safety. As far as your install goes keep hanging out here and there will be plenty of folks that can help you with it you should also contact a couple different installers and see what they say. Glad to have you aboard look forward to seeing what you end up with.

 

While I want the soapstone insert to be my primary heat source, the slow heat up can be offset by 220V wall heaters in each room.

My intention is to purchase the wood type recommended for the stove. From my quick pricing, even purchasing oak by the cord will be cheaper than my propane bills.

But, if I were ambitious, I have a choice of either pine or oak; if I go east about an hour of where my house is, it is largely pine woods. But just west(20 mins) at lower elevations it is largely oak woods.

I have been trying to avoid catalytic stoves due to some of the maintenance related issues I've read about.

 

I wouldnt worry about the "slow heat up" from a cold dead stove and a room temp in the 50s I can have the room warm with the heat moving to the rest of the house in 30 minutes or less. Oak is great wood but it can take 2-3 years to get seasoned pine is good and takes a lot less time 6 months to a year it burns nive and hot but it burns fast too you will go through a lot more of it than harder woods. Keep on doing your research ask lots of people lots of questions take your time and dont rush into this. You could start collecting wood now though get it split stacked and top covered that will help get you ahead of the game.

 

John - "wood type recommended for the stove" is what you have at your disposal If you have any inkling of processing your own wood contemplate the species in your 10-20mile radius

my Clydesdale will burn any wood - seasoned of course.... pine,oak,hickory, sweetgum, dogwood, maple, beech - the fuel will determine the stoves effectiveness of heating the house and some stoves burn softwoods at a slower rate (cat vs. non-cat) Outside draft conditions will affect your stove as well - I have a good stretch of shoulder season fires, softwoods are great at heating the stove&house up quick without blowing you out of the room.

I was in your same mindset (steering away from catalysts that would require replacement someday) all stoves require a bit of maintenance, be it, door gasket, blower cleaning, and every stove requires a liner sweeping.
If you are in a climate(sounds similar to mine) where you need overnight burns and some 24-7 for several stretches with morning reloads but not sub-freezing from Oct-Mar(like some of these fools who live in the north) you may be best served with a non-cat stove - not to steer you from them.

 

I'm definitely not in any huge rush. My anticipated purchase date is next summer.

Funny you mention starting to collect wood. One thing I'm currently deficient on is a convenient storage spot near the door.

Funny you bring up draft conditions. While I was shopping, it was mentioned there might be potential draft issue because my house is in a ravine. The claim was some people in the area would extend their chimneys. I'm still trying to learn about draft/etc.

On the wood, my general understanding is the hard woods burn longer but a little cooler while soft woods burn quicker but hotter. Ideally I'd like to "load up the insert" before bed and have heat/coals still going in the morning.

My concern with the catalyst was it sounds like when it failed, it hurt the effectiveness of the stove significantly. The standard cleaning and regular maintenance doesn't bother me too much.

From a climate standpoint, the cold starts Nov to April and usually drops down in the 40 degree range. This year we had 3 straight days that were teens and a few stretches in the low 30s.

 

Soapstone absorbs heat, twice as much as steel per pound. It takes longer to get the stone up to temp, but all that stored heat is later released at the end of the burn. The heat-sink properties level out the heat curve of the burn. That's my $.02 after decades with a steel stove and two winters with soapstone. Either one will work, both have their advantages. I wake up to a ~69F house on a 0F morning, so rapid heating is not a priority for me. Other people have different needs.

Don't fear a cat stove. Cat vs non-cat each have their perks but I prefer the long, steady, efficient burn of a cat.
Hearthstone seams to get mixed reviews. I've never laid eyes on one.

 

This is an oversimplification. Stove temperatures depend on a lot of little variables that you'll learn to manage as you get acquainted with your stove. Wood gives off flammable gasses and particulates as it reaches particular temperatures, and since softwoods are generally less dense, they can heat up to that point more rapidly. Some softwoods also contain flammable resins, which ignite at lower temperatures and can really get things going quickly. But just as it's possible to drive a Ferrari to the grocery store without inviting a speeding ticket, you can also build and manage softwood fires so that they produce lower stove temperatures.

Here's the thing. Catalysts make it possible for the gasses and particulates given off by heated wood to burn at lower temperatures than they otherwise would. If you don't have a catalyst, then stove temperatures have to be kept significantly higher to avoid sending a lot of wasteful. polluting, creosote-forming unburned smoke up the chimney. In mild temperatures like those that you have pretty much all winter, a catalyst would allow you to load the stove, adjust it to burn at low temperatures, and then let it do its thing for a long, long time. Does that make sense? With a non-cat stove you would have to aim for a lot of quick, hot fires instead of a few long, slow ones, and if that non-cat stove was oversized for the house then building fires hot enough for the stove to operate cleanly but not so hot as to overheat the house could be very difficult.

Couldn't you say something equivalent about every worthwhile technology? The effectiveness of my wood processing system is severely compromised when my chain saw breaks, but that doesn't mean I'd be better off bucking logs with a hand saw. The bit of extra time and money you spend maintaining the catalyst will... and I'm saying 'will' because I can feel that you're going to end up with a cat stove... it will be more than offset by the time you save not having to fuss around building and managing bunches of tiny, hot fires all winter.