New control box for the Whitfield

The new panel I ordered for the big Whit arrived

Here are some pix

It's a big one, a bit bigger than what I used on the P2

13 X 10 X 4 inches

Plenty of room for all the relays, buss bars, and goodies

 

There's a chap in the vicinity of BAN83 (Peterborough, Ontario)that repairs Whitfield's control modules. I'll check out the info on him, probably no help for you as you got everything covered. Might be handy for folks on this side of our island.

Whitfield Advantage II-T, III Plus Control Board Repair Service | heaters, humidifiers, dehumidifiers | Peterborough | Kijiji

705 930-8139

 

I wanted a controller that was basically hard wired and used the solid state relays that are easily replaced (one screw and a few 1/4" spade plugs)

All quick and easy if the need arises.

Whitfield used to do it this way back in the days of the ADVANTAGE 1

These old work horses just soldiered on forever.

Once the companies went to the micro electronics on a small control board the issues all came about.

The old style systems were also subject to folks like me soon figuring out that the relays were an off the shelf item and cheap.

The replacement parts business was born in the pellet stove world.

What cost the manuf's literally pennies to have made over seas (control boards) sell here for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I new board for the Whit P2 was recently listed on ebay for $599.00

OMG

I can't hack that amount

Once the control box is assembled the 2x2 solid state relays/timers are the only real items to possibly need replacing.

At about $50 each a few spares can be easily justified laying on the shelf.

Having two stoves I have designed two controllers. Even though the two are slightly different the base components are the same (Timers, relays etc)

On a cold night a failure can be dealt with in a few minutes and thing back running.

 

Like I said, you've got everything covered
It would be nice to be able to rig something up for the other stoves, the simpler the better

 

Fantastic! Have you ever published a parts list and schematic for these? Any desire to do so? I have an old Whit (Quest) for which I'd like to build a similar control (spare time being the culprit). Regardless, will enjoy seeing you get underway with this one.

 

Here is the Schematic

The basic process was simple.

Asses what what had to happen and when. "Draft fan, convection blower and auger motor need to run"

How to control all these items.

Draft fan needs to run any time the stove is on
What speed does it need to run ?? (use of a phase control)
Convection fan needs to run and be adjustable (use of a phase control)
High temp snap switches need to be employed to guard against over temp conditions
Low temp switch employed to switch power to the controller once there is a good fire.
A lockout relay to prevent a restart in the even of a power outage (requires reset button actuation)
One shot timer to power the system until unit is firing good (15-30 minutes)
Recycle timer with on and off times adjustable.
On time set on the timer (generally 1.4 to 2 seconds)
Off time remote panel adjustable for heat setting (Normally between 2 and 10 seconds off time)

Infitec makes nice 2x2 solid state "puck type" timers (HSS series for startup and the HTRS series for the on off cycling of the auger.

The phase controllers for the fans can use the PCSL series with remote pot to deal with fan speeds.

REALLY BASIC STUFF

Just groom the component layout to get the exact configuration you need.

 

Hey hey hey.

Got a bug in my butt this afternoon and figured out the bracket for the new panel, then made a cardboard template.

Tried that out and then headed down to the metal yard in town and we sheared and bent it to suit.

Taped and propped it up to get a piccy.

I'm pleased with the location and the look.

The general consensus was not to mount it on the wall on this one.
The ADV2 T is plenty big enough to allow for mounting it to the stove chassis.

A couple 1/4 inch bolts in the bracket to fasten it to the stove side panel and we're good to go.

Been wanting to see some progress other than schematics and relay part numbers on paper.

Once the Volt meter for the draft fan control gets here I will start laying out the panel switches, lights and other control locations and get the holes in the panel.

I also need to bolt a hinge on the panel top/bottom to allow it to fold open for easy access.

Will bring the cabling in and out the back, not sure exactly where yet, but no biggy.

I want to dummy it all up to get the inner workings in the most ergonomic positions on the panel.

The main switches will go on the upper sloped area, and the fuse holders and likely the volt meter will go in the bottom area of the face.

The various control function lights will get figured out as it comes together.

The plan is to clean the aluminum and paint it to match the stove.

Right now I think I will get the panel and the bracket fastened together and bolted to the side of the stove body.

Definitely excited now with actual physical things happening.

Hopefully next month I can get the relays and that stuff here and start moving ahead with actual wiring and such.

My current plan is to test this control on the extra ADV 2 T and then once the testing is all complete I will gut this stove of all wiring and install everything fresh.
The panel door may end up with a little screw lapped over the edge to keep it shut, as it will serve no purpose.

Ahhhh yessss

 

Sweeeeeeeet

Cruising ebay this morning and stumbled across four SSAC AC phase/speed controllers at a very very good price.

These four little creatures for $14
They normally sell for about $40 + each

Two of these will be used to control the draft fan and room blower in my new controller

 

Thank you for the schematic and info, Snowy. Greatly appreciated! The project is moving along beautifully. Great to see!

 

My projects tend to go in fits and starts.

I did the design work back a few years and got the basics figured out for the P2
Then I actually built the unit for the P2 in a crude form and tested the ideas to get input as to whether it was what I wanted.

Next came the actual building of the controller box and then final testing with real time parts.

So then on to the ADV2T and pretty much the same design, but with some changes to accomodate the differences in operation.
The ADV2T has a low temp snap switch that shuts the unit off if there is no fire (P2 did not)
The ADV2T needs to have a draft fan speed control (P2 runs at line voltage)
The ADV2T needs a one shot start timer to feed power until the low temp switch closes (P2 does not use this)

I am adding a neg pressure switch on the firebox to shut the unit off if the draft fan dies (Smoked up the house once due to a stalled fan (stuck motor needing oil)
Also adding a pos pressure switch to the room air plenum to shut off the auger if the convection fan dies.
If these things happen the stove can shut down safely without issue.

Also replacing the high temp snap switches with manual reset types to prevent any restart until the cause is found and fixed.

The added safeties are just something that needs to be done to give the old girl a far better safety margin.

Currently there is only a pressure switch on the vent.
Nothing to prevent the thing from feeding if the door is accidentally left ajar.
Nothing to prevent an overheat if the room air fan quits (other than the high temp snap that has to see extreme temps first)
Nothing to prevent a really smokey mess if the draft fan quits.

All these things had to be considered, and the "how to do it" figured into the package.
Then components sourced and procured.

Not at all expensive (especially when you can scare up NOS stuff)

Ebay is full of great stuff at great prices, IF you know what you need and are willing to sit and pour through the listings.

I had been looking for the phase controllers for some time, and was going to purchase them from Infitec ($30 + each) when these units from SSAC came up for sale.

The same basic type of control other than the SSAC units use a 100K ohm pot to control the thing and Infitec uses a 1 meg ohm pot.
Same spade plug layout pretty much and could be swapped at a later date with no issue.

Ahhhh yesssss
Projects.

 

Nice score on the phase controllers Snowy, can't beat that price.

Will the phase controller be the "last" device in-line before the motor(s), e.g.: (safety controls -> phase controller -> motor) ?

Watching with great interest for something I'm working on, hope you don't mind if I ask you some questions about your build along the way..

** The metal case and fabrication for placement looks really good & accessible on the ADV 2 T - nice pics there. **

 

Not at all.
Always happy to share ideas.

Safeties are right up in the first tier.

Power feeds from the power cord to the MAIN fuse then to the HIGH snaps, through them in series then back to the panel to the latchout relay.
(This will shut down everything in the event of a high trip. The manual high snaps allow diagnostics of what happened after the fact ** one tripped**

From the latchout relay the power flows to the MAIN SWITCH (A reset button must be pressed when first plugging in or after an outage/unplugging)

From the Main the power flows to the PRIMARY MAIN BUSS (Feeds an indicator lamp and the SIR2 LOW TEMP relay)

Power from the PRIMARY MAIN BUSS feeds on to the one shot relay.
From the one shot relay (When the start button is pressed) power flows to the TRANSFER BUSS
From the transfer buss the power then flows to the L1 BUSS (All components connect to the L1 BUSS)
From here the power flows to the various components
A burner fuse is connected to L1 then to the burner switch (Shut off feed)
then on to the cycle timer (Indicator lamp in that circuit to show power to feed circuit)
Cycle timer is fed off this circuit then on the the auger motor.

Power feeds the two fans (Draft and conv) from the L1 buss through their respective phase/speed controls. (Pressure/vacuum switches go in the fan housings to cut power to auger if fans fail)

Fuses go in each fan circuit before the phase control along with an indicator lamp on the panel.

A resistor pack connected through a selector to control the cycle timer.
A red lamp on the panel shows auger operation.

The transfer buss (Fed by the one shot) also powers the low limit snap switch.

When low limit snap closes the power routes from the transfer buss (still under one shot power) to the SIR2 RELAY which receives power from the PRIMARY MAIN BUSS which then allows the SIR2 to close bypassing the one shot and powering the transfer buss until such time that the burner switch is opened and the low limit opens. (A closed loop is formed once the low limit closes)

The ONE SHOT timer holds about 15-30 minutes depending on what we deem needed to allow stove to reach temperature. (Adjustable)

A panel lamp indicates when low limit snap has closed and will light up.


All references to the various BUSS BAR'S (Primary main, L1, Transfer ect) are for reference on the schematic (Could have been called anything BUSS 1, 2, 3 or A, B, C)
I chose to give them titles that convey what they do.

There is also a neutral buss in the panel as well as the stove and a ground buss in both as well.

All neutral wires run to the N buss to simplify wiring.
Panel is internally grounded as is the stove chasis.

The safeties will, depending on their location do one of two things.

An overheat or power outage will drop out the latchout relay and totally shut off power to the unit.
A failed draft fan or room air fan will simply shut off the auger power feed.
Both the draft fan vacuum switch and the convection blower plenum pressure switch will be in series with the auger motor circuit downstream of the cycle timer.

A lamp on the feed side of the cycle timer will show if it is working.
A lamp on the feed motor itself will show if it is getting power.
A failure in the pressure/vacuum switches or one of the fans will be shown by a non lit feed motor lamp and a lit cycle timer lamp.

Easy diagnostic this way.

No program logic, just simple LED lamps.


All pretty simple stuff, and once installed in the panel there it should be a lifetime thing.
Each component has its own appropriate sized fuse with the panel lamp downstream of the fuse to make a failure easy to see.

The main fuse is sized for the entire stove and fuses everything after the power gets to the panel.
A failure in the cord will be dealt with by household breakers.

May sound complex, but in reality it's some pretty basic wiring.

This setup required a bit more than whats in the P2 due to the difference in how the stove was originally set up.

I wanted to keep all the basic operational parameters all the same along with the safeties, just added a few more safety features to make this even better.

I don't want to come home to a stove that has issues and not be able to figure out what happened and or why.

An overtemp for example will pop a snap switch, and with manual reset type, real easy to find.
With the standard ones they will reset and not show anything.

A failed draft fan will/could fill the house with smoke as the stove chokes on it's own fuel.
A failed conv blower can cause an over temp and a very high heat condition that is not good for the unit.
The pressure/vacuum switch will simply shut off the fuel and the low limit snap will open shutting the unit down safely.

Should be sweeeeeeet.

Snowy

 

This may sound overwhelming to some folks, but when its all laid out on paper it is real simple.

Just takes some time to get all the circuits drawn out.

All this stuff is usually done on those cute little printed circuit boards that cost big bucko's at the stove shop

 

Got the panel out of the plastic wrap and started chewing on it with tools.
Made a relief cut on the back lower corner to allow the "Way cool"chrome hinge to fit in tight against the panel body.

Got some nice little thumb screws to fasten the panel shut at the top once things are all done.

An easy unscrew and fold the thing open sort of idea.

Some pix of the goings on.
Got the little volt meter today too.
I am liking this a lot.
Need to order a second one to use for the conv fan speed.

Can mount them on either side of the panel with a pot by each one to adjust the fan speeds.

Will add a fixed resistor in parallel to the pot to fix the slow speed at it's minimum.
This will prevent accidentally setting the fans too low.]

The draft fan is factory spec'd to run at 70 volts on low setting, so the lowest fan speed will be maintained even if the pot is turned waaaaaay tooooo far.

The room air fan will be protected in the same fashion to stop it from falling too low.

Ahhh yesss, I like it.

 

Thanks much Snowy - I'm pretty sure this is what I need to do also / what was missing from the reclaimer box design: a method to immediately halt operation if any liquid is detected in the chamber due to a leak.

Due to the high heat environment of the box, I am thinking of using an old-school small motor carburetor float assembly w/ a micro reed switch inside to detect fluid level.. Should be easy enough to locate one here or source from the town dump as needed.

Still investigating if there is a high-temp moisture sensor available, but admittedly haven't had much time to do so.

* Best wishes on a trouble-free build, hope it all goes smooth for 'ya.

Thanks again for sharing that info, it is a =big= help.

Kind Regards,
Rob

 

Got more work done this morning
Panel all set now with thumb screw fasteners at the top and a hinge at the bottom

 

Ordered up another 150 V panel meter for the project.

Going to locate the two meters on opposite sides of the panel with the left side meter indicating the draft fan voltage and the right side meter the convection fan voltage. (Where the fans are in the stove too)

These numbers directly correlate to the fans speed.

Factory service materials give the specs for the various draft fan speeds as related to the feed rate.
The room air (conv) fan has a minimum voltage at the low setting.

The current plan is to use a fixed resistor to set the absolute lowest speed that we want (Factory low for the draft is 70 V and for the Room air is 60 volts)

The room air fan can run up to line voltage (High speed)
My inclination is to use a resistor that will keep the room air fan from going much below a mid range speed.
The stove currently does not have a working speed control and runs at what is likely close to full speed.

The Draft fan is running at about 70-72 volts depending on the time of day (wee hours of the morning the line voltage tends to be a tad higher here)

This is the low setting (Where we run all the time)

Once the voltages are established and the parameters worked out I'm thinking a green yellow and red dot to stick on the meter face to show wassssup.

Will mount the pots between the two meters, as this will make things look quite spiffy me thinks.

I love it when a plan comes together

 

Got some good progress done today.
Holes cut for the two volt meters (Comb and Conv fan speed)
Got the layout done for the various switches and buttons along with the fuse holders and LED indicator lamp locations too.

Going to stand down from drilling the holes until I have all the materials in hand, as I want to be sure of the sizes of holes to drill.

The lamps, switches etc all say what size hole they fit, BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
I DON'T TRUST THE PRINTED MATERIALS.
The panel was nearly $50 and I don't want it screwed up

So far things are looking great.

Once all the holes are drilled for the various switches, buttons, pots and such as well as the holes to locate the various relays and the buss bars I will paint the exterior to match the stove.

(Gray metalic Stove bright)

Once this is done then things can start getting bolted in for real.

Thinking about fastening the bracket to the panel with pop rivets ???

Not fully decided yet.

Ahhhh yessss

PROGRESSS

 

Sweeeeeet.

More goodies came today.
The second volt meter and 4 phase/speed controls.

More stuff tomorrow and more later in the week.

Just gotta keep scouring up goodies for the project.
Soon I should be able to verify the holes sizes for the various parts and drill the panel.

Yesssssss

 

Sitting here this morning looking at new LED panel lamps for the controller.
These are push in style with little springy tabs that latch the lamp into the panel.
Getting them in is easy, getting them out can be an entirely different story as the tabs are small and tough to grasp all four at once.

The bottom line is that tempers are going to flare and things are likely not going to end well.

Sooooo

Off to the machine shop in the basement to build A TOOL that will remove the lamps in a usable condition.

Soon I found a piece of UHMW round stock (Ultra high molecular weight) "polyethylene"

Tossed the beast in the lathe and punched a hole in it that allows it to just slip over the lamps body.
The tool can be slipped over the lamp from the backside and will compress the little tabs, allowing the lamp to slip out of the panel easily.

This will be nice for the various stages of construction and being able to install the lights for mock-up and checking and then removing to paint the panel before final assembly begins.

Tools are great.