So John (I think thats his name) at wood heat.org has no idea what he is talking about and the fact that the old stoves did not do it means nothing at all either.
Another quote from some one who does not have a clue. "EPA certified stoves are more likely to have this problem. This is because of the higher temperatures inside the firebox. This causes the more volatile and faster burning compounds to burn off quickly leaving more of the slower burning coals."
I don't think anyone is being called a liar here. I also don't think anyone has provided an authoritative answer. Don't take it personal - not everyone going to listen to you - happens to me all the time. I have a non-cat, non-epa stove, so it's possible I don't have a clue what I'm talking about; so feel free to disregard what I'm about to say if you think that's the case. I do manage to run it very cleanly, though I likely send more heat up my flue than you EPA guys. No thermo-meters on it, but it does have a glass front, so I mostly manage it by observing what's happening inside the box, rather than the temp. Fire, as a chemical reaction, is no different now than it was in caveman times. It is still governed by the availability of heat, air, and fuel, and it requires sufficient amounts of each to sustain the chain reaction. Placing it inside an EPA-approved box merely changes the parameters; it does not change the laws. When I find I have a bed of coals leftover, likely one of two different situations has occurred, and I only consider one of them to be a "problem". The 3 inch bed of glowing red coals I found this morning happened 'by design'; as I loaded the box with higher density fuel last night before bed (4 splits of black locust on top). I had to shield my face from the heat when I opened the door to reload, but the splits were catching on fire as soon as I placed them in the box. I like this sort of situation in the morning, because it means I can spend less time tending the fire and more drinking coffee. The other situation that I do consider a problem, is when the 'coals' are cold and black and I smell smoke when opening the door. In this case the fire has been 'smothered' and this unspent fuel is a sure sign that something has gone wrong with my heat/air/fuel 'pyramid'. Wet fuel has largely become a problem of the past for me since joining here, so it's nearly always a problem with the amount of available air (too little). Usually what has happened in this case is that I have packed the stove too tightly and therefore restricted the airflow. This can be remedied by leaving the air control open more than I normally would, or by dialing it back more slowly in the beginning. Both strategies remedy the lack of air by introducing more heat, but this will make for a shorter, hotter fire. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm accusing anyone of making a 'rookie mistake', but there's really only one way the coaling "problem" can happen, assuming your wood is dry: you have restricted the air flow too much. It's probably happening more when you're "burning hard", because you're dialing the air back more quickly or packing the stove more tightly. It's an easy mistake to make since the stove is generally staying hotter, making you think you can "get away with it". But even in a hot stove, you need sufficient time for the new load of fuel to ignite, and therefore provide enough in the "heat" portion of the pyramid.
I burnt a non cat non EPA stove for 30 years so I have an idea how they run . It just does not happen with the older stove in the same manner what so ever, I could stuff (still can stove in the shop) that 4 cubic foot firebox full of Oak (not matter how big of splits) and it would it down with out excessive coaling. Not my description but so many people (non cat EPA stove) report this issue that I looked it up and found there is an explanation for the problem, as stated in this thread there are other things that come into play but the dynamics of it make sense. One person moved his non cat EPA stove into his shop and reported a coaling problem that he did not have in the house, reason being he was driving the stove much harder in the shop causing the coaling. That is a key point it happens when the stove is driven hard. All I can do is report what I have observed and also found on wood burning sites and woodheat.org is a good one, if people dont want to accept the information thats fine I have other things to do.
That's just not true what so ever, I dont choke my stove at all and never have, you would see that information in the thread.
I do find it annoying that you are telling me I dont know how to run my stove especially since you dont have a EPA stove.
I know, just dont want to see the friendly arguement get ugly. I that would lead to me clicking the "unwatch" button
I was merely trying to relay my understanding of fire chemistry, and give my thoughts on "What causes coaling". If it were me, I'd experiment with the air control a little more. I'll bet I wouldn't have many coals if I left it wide open.
Maybe the best way to settle this is to all agree to disagree. My stove coals tremendously when I put 4 to 6 large (~10-12 inch) chunks of hickory in. Other nights when I blend in some ash, not so much. The next night with the same mix it can be a different story. Each person will have a unique stove, flue length, wood mix, moisture content, wood size, wind and other environmental factors that play into it. Looks like in the short term, you will need to rake the coals towards the door, and try some of the suggestions and see if any work. They may not work for you, but maybe for another so at least someone wins right. My personal opinion and the general thought of the others is you have an air balance to figure out assuming your wood is dry. Its a simple chemical reaction, but you need to get enough air in, and be able to get a corresponding mass flow of air out. It could be as simple as calling the manufacturer and getting the right person as well. Cant we all just get along
Lots of good info and theories here on coaling. But as a common sense kinda guy I think everyone is missing the obvious reason for coaling in a stove. And the reason is..... Aint that what wood does once in awhile when you burn it?
Let's hope this post does not create any new differences of opinion. So last night I tried an experiment to since this thread is somewhat amusing. Granted I have a large furnace but I did the following and woke up this morning with fewer coals than normal. The fire was just burning down so I raked the coals to the front and got the bed nice and level. I place two large splits of ash to each side (triangular). I placed another large split of maple directly in the middle, point down to create an almost flat level. I then placed two large splits of hickory and one large ironwood round on top. Since it was cold, the combustion air damper stayed open all night. I came down this morning to a small bed of coals. On other nights I put the Hickory on the bottom and sugar maple on top and wake up to a large pile. Could simply be luck, but it seemed to work this one time. I prefer the coals to some extent though since I have a stove large enough that they do not compromise the space. See if your blend will allow for this and let us know where you land.
I'm like Woodsnwoods. I don't mind the coal bed. I find it helps with ignition after the Hardy OWB has set idle for a while and the forced air draft fan kicks on.
Everything in moderation, including depth of residual coals. Best way to (re)start a fire. I've run a few older-design stoves. One common characteristic: air leaks. Often cold-iron by morn. With current stoves it seems you need to pay attention to loading scheme (amount/species/MC/billet size) and draft settings. One good way to keep coals down in the evening: once down to coals-only, pull them to be double depth at the front, put a few long splits E-W near the rear of the firebox, set draft to be a bit more than for a normal burn. The coals will go bye-bye. Burning them is the only way, obviously, and primary air gets that done. The trick is to do that without flaring the wood. The fun-factor is in adapting to changing circumstances, without having to open windows. Absolutely nothing is personal here
Of course nothing is THE END in any such discussion. That would be so boring, wouldn't it? (It's not like we're feeding the fire with #2-special or NatGas- set it & forget it.) My latest mini-experiment involves admitting a very small amount of air past the (lower) door under the grate of my stove. It took some trickery to enable that, and keep grate temp under control. Morso 7110 has two doors, above & below the grate. So far, that very small amount of draft below enables keeping the mass of coals way down. For now, I only do this during waking hours. Also, doing this has major side-bennie of stopping "creosote" from being deposited in the area under the grate. Much preferable to get that poo converted to BTUs above, no? So much to learn, such fun!
Did you read my posts in this thread, I dont run my stove with low flue temps and never have EPA stove or not. But it just so happens that the Drolet got away for me tonight (sometimes I need to watch it closer) and at 800 degrees stove top and about 600 flue temp I hit the panic button but it reduced a full load of White Ash to a bed of coals in a very short period of time. I now have a stove full of coals. It's really a known fact with the newer stoves (non cat EPA) not so sure why some find this hard to believe. It does not happen when its warmer out, so running the stove harder makes it worse so you are backwards in your thinking you need more air as that can makes it worse.
I also find this thread amusing, known facts that the non cat EPA stoves are more apt to do this are just farted off. Many ways to deal with it but it happens more so on the new stoves, if the stove is plenty big enough for the area you are heating you will probably never see it as the stove will not be run all that hard and it will cycle through.
