In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Timber harvest advice

Discussion in 'The Wood Market' started by DaveGunter, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter

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    Anyone know about silvopasture?

    I am considering trying to convert the 3-4 acres directly behind my house into silvopasture potentially with a small pond as well with the goal of adding some livestock (probably goats) in the future, strictly on a hobby basis. The silvopasture would be geared towards pasture more than a tree crop as 3-4 acres is not enough space for a substantial tree crop. I've been doing a lot of reading and watching a bunch of videos and I got a call into the UMaine coop extension and have a soils/forestry person from the USDA coming out next week to take a look. I'd like get a good idea if this is possible or even a good idea so that I can give some direction to the timber harvest in this area.

     
  2. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

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    I wonder if mike bayerl has heard of it?
     
  3. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    Just a "nice to know" where the harvests are located. We can always learn.
    From our harvest, the Managing Forester is responsible but along with the landowner for any off regs.
    That's the Maine law at least.
    They take illegal cutting damm seriously with substantial fines.
     
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  4. mike bayerl

    mike bayerl

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    Sounds like a great plan. Very smart to get the local extension out to assist you. That is likely to give the best info specific to your land, I looked into silvopasture a year or two ago, and the early result from around me showed that it was highly expensive and time consuming with minimal benefits, especially when trying to convert existing forest into pasture for forage. In contrast, planting trees on existing pasture is probably easier, cheaper and provides more tangible benefits. Thank you for bringing this topic up. I should revisit this issue again to see if there are updates. It's definitely a popular and rapidly progressing topic.
     
  5. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter

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    Kinda like what Gasifier has got going on at his place for the spoiled ones too, although his looks to be mostly a pine forest and much more expansive also

    LOL, yes "expensive" is what I hear a lot...wonder what the source of the expense is? The tree removal should actually make me some money with the timber harvest already happening. If I hire the ground mulcher to do the trails in the woods I don't think it would be that much more to have him do this area a little more throughly, that would definitely take care of the brush but the stumps is a big question...will the ground mulcher be able to reduce them enough to brush hog over them or will I have to dig them out...the goal would be a "rough" pasture and goats will eat about anything, I just really don't want to create an eyesore or a mud hole. The soil would definitely need some amending to be able to grow any kind of grass, being a pine forest it is very acidic.
     
  6. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    Stump removal adds $$$ to the harvest Dave. Our cutting was a "patch" cut ( 2-5 a. clear cuts then skid paths to the next opening ).
    With 2 to 5 a. openings we decided to not remove the stumps even on skid trails. It would have required
    an excavator for a few days to take them out and stack them ( not pretty ). I used an old B&C on my aged MS260 to level off close to a 100 stumps
    at no cost but my back.
    Don't know if a "ground mulcher" levels out stumps.
     
  7. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter

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    The revenue from the timber harvest is taxable as ordinary income. Any extra work I contract through the harvesting company can be paid with the revenue. The more I spend on brush mulching or excavator work the less I get to donate to the government. I'll likely spend all of the timber harvest revenue on getting the land the way I want it but still... I don't want to spend it in a way that is not likely to get me what I want.

    Stump removal can create problems as well, you end up with a big hole and what do you do with the stump? You can always bury the slash instead of mulching it. I'd like to avoid slash/stump piles as they attract porkys.
     
  8. Gasifier

    Gasifier

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    I piled and burned many stumps that were close enough to burn areas. But, I talked with a guy who does a lot of power line work. Told him what I was doing. He explained to me that after you dig your stump out, drop it a few times, dig the hole a little deeper (8-12”), and then you can take the stump and flip it over. Bury it stump down and fill in around the sides and right over the top of them. The Roots end up providing a more stable ground for your road or trail than a hole just filled back in with dirt. I have done this on many trails and it works well. Of course the stump will rot over time, but that will take a while.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  9. Gasifier

    Gasifier

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    If you have a place somewhere nearby that you can rent a large mini excavator (4.5 - 6 ton range) you can save some real money and have some fun digging stumps out of the trails you want. They work very well on small to medium size stumps. I just left the biggest stumps and weaved the trails between them. If that type of work interest you and you have the time.

    If you do rent one make sure it has a hydraulic thumb, and a cab with heat and air conditioning. Nothing less. Bugs, sun, rain, pollens, cold, and etc. can all slow or stop your pace. But the controlled cab with air filters is really a huge plus. If paying for using one the hydraulic thumb is a must. The work you can get done in just a few days is awesome. Sometime in the future I will rent one again while I have a full week of vacation and the wife and kids are in school. :dex::thumbs: I mean :whistle:.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  10. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter

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    Almost done, probably another week or so on my land. Still a lot of wood on the ground too.



    This was happening today, immediately behind my house. I asked them to cut this area so that I could have them do a second pass if it ends up not thin enough. This is the potential goat pasture area.

     
  11. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    When our 60a. woodlot was harvested in '99, the logger offered to do the stumping in the timber yard and skid trails.
    The cost would have been a good part of the timber profit. We opted out.
    A logger friend recommended to just use an old bar and chain, cut the stumps close to the ground. They take many years to rot he said.
    Plenty of bend over work, but it was doable ....then. None of the 100's of stumps cut down have rotted in the 20 years.
    Hey Dave, you could have a stumping party on MDI.
     
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  12. billb3

    billb3

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    It's illegal to bury stumps here.
    Along with burying construction debris, but it is still done when no one is looking.

    Town has a bigger one of these:
     
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  13. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    Stumping GTG on MDI ? ......Columbus Day ( or whatever...).:campfire::campfire:
     
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  14. Horkn

    Horkn

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    That's going to be a big change DaveGunter !

    Have you introduced your hounds to any goats ever?

    All of my dogs that have seen goats were a little confused. "They look like dogs, but aren't" lol
     
  15. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter

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    No they have never seen a goat, I don't anticipate the Hounds being a problem with the goats, I've almost got them to the point that I can trust them with the chickens...even Jackson who has a high prey drive and very stubborn...I've been looking into livestock protective breeds lately...lots if coyote and bobcat around here.
     
  16. Midwinter

    Midwinter

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    I wonder how many hours it takes to get good at running the delimber? He seems to be very fast.
     
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  17. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter

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    That operator has been doing it many years. I'm sure it becomes second nature at some point doing it 8-10 hours a day. But still it takes a certain type of person to get really good. I wouldn't have the patience. Getting the trees down without damaging the others, having the logs land in one pile while keeping the brush together without tearing up the forest floor, there is definitely an art to it.
     
  18. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    Lady our German shepherd never saw a horse one came up she wanted to sniff his but unfortunately she was a little short:eek:
     
  19. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter

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    Today should be the last day of the harvest, the managing forester will be by later this am to take a last look.

    I asked them to come back and cut a couple more bigger spruce on the edge of the leach field.





    He is also finishing up a few more overgrown patches immediately behind the house. Not a lot of merchantable wood there for them but they do it mainly for aesthetics. Probably boring to most, but I could watch him work all day.
     
  20. amateur cutter

    amateur cutter

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    Looking good Dave! Looks like a good company to do the work. I got a ride in a harvester 3 years ago in the U.P. Guy even let me cut a couple trees, that was cool! I think you'll be very happy with your property when it's done.
     
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