Thought on rifle

Discussion in 'Everything Else (off topic)' started by Backwoods Savage, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM.

  1. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage

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    A couple good friends are after me to use one of their rifles. 350. I have no experience with one of these but am hearing good things. Best is practically no recoil and good clean kills with them.

    Cabela has them on sale this week at $240 (part is rebate). At least I think they have this caliber. I'll check tomorrow. Price sounds great. It is Savage Axis.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. tree killer

    tree killer

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    Looks to beat out the 300 blackout. Savage Axis is a good rifle, I have a 22-250 and my daughter has a 243 Axis. Priced right and reliable.
     
  3. Horkn

    Horkn

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    350 legend is a popular caliber. Michigan, and other states have rules allowing only straight walled rifles in some areas. Using a 30/30 or 308, you surely don't have those rules.

    I would steer clear of a bolt action. A semi auto will kick less.

    Some semi autos even in regular deer cartridges (not talking 223 because I don't feel that's a proper deer round) will offer recoil of only 4 lbs which is less than 1/3 of the kick of the 30/30 lever you're using.
     
  4. Horkn

    Horkn

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  5. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Doing the math, if that's the regular axis, at under 6 lbs, it will kick almost as much as a 30/30 winchester. Only 1 lb of recoil force less.

    Screenshot_20201122-134430.png

    I don't know if that's going to get you to where you need to be regarding recoil. The price is right though.
     
  6. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Maybe all you really need is a good recoil pad?
    Recoil Pads Showcase

    If your winchester model 94 is a steel butt stock model, like many, they kick a lot. Adding a relatively inexpensive butt pad will reduce felt recoil quite a bit.

    Plus, you've certainly already got ammo for that 30/30, have familiarity with it, and you said that shots over 100 yards are not available, then it seems that your 30/30 with a good recoil pad might be the easy fix
     
  7. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage

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    Horkn that is odd as the 2 guys who have offered to let me use it assure me the is hardly any kick to it. Probably because it is the shorter and lighter rifle. Certainly a lot different from the 308. Maybe I should borrow it to shoot it. Right now though I am a bit gun shy with what it has done to my neck.
     
  8. XXL

    XXL

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    Less recoil is nice, especially when you go to a light weight rifle, like an Axis. Are you in a straight-wall cartridge mandated state?

    Might be a bit off topic but can someone explain why some states have mandated straight-wall cartridge use only?
     
  9. fox9988

    fox9988

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    I bought 2 Savage Axis II XP in .223. The II gets you an Accutrigger, the XP get you a Weaver 3x9x40 mounted (or VSS). Love the triggers and both cheap tack drivers. I've put ~4K rounds through one of them prairie dog hunting, no complaints.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 6:51 PM
  10. CoachSchaller

    CoachSchaller

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    Just got done shooting the 350 legend and the 450 bushmaster. My Brother in law also has both. It is nice because they are legal in southern Michigan. My daughter and son both shoot the 350 well. It doesn't kick much, but in all honesty, I don't pay much attention to recoil. My BIL was just at the range. The 350 he has was driving tacks at 50 and 100 yards. I think it was a 3 inch group at 200 yards (about the maximum you want to ethically kill a deer). He had problems with the 450 at 250 yards... As I have been looking at them recently, there is definitely a difference in the actions of the different makers. Some are too sloppy for me.
     
  11. CoachSchaller

    CoachSchaller

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    Sure!!
    In the more populated areas, high powered rifles were not allowed because of the distance a bullet could travel. Hence, most could only use a shotgun or black powder muzzle loader for firearms. The bureaucrats or DNR or someone came up with the idea to use straight walled pistol type cartridges in a rifle. This design, without the casing bottleneck, keeps the powder down and the distance of travel more in line with a shotgun. What you get is a bullet that is more accurate than a shotgun and a little more distance but not at the expense of shooting the neighbor's house through the woods (in theory). It might not be perfect, but the laws were changed and now we have new firearms that we are able to purchase!!

    On a side note, the ammo for the 350 legend and 450 bushmaster seem to be stocked at most stores.
     
  12. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    Borrow a bunch try them all... buy one you want but only from dealer has 3 boxes of ammo for it on shelves
     
  13. XXL

    XXL

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    Perfect! Thanks CoachSchaller.

    We're still in the shotgun/muzzleloader situation in the more heavily populated southern strip of our province. Makes perfect sense to use the less powerful straight walled cartridge in these areas. Maybe that will happen here some day too.
     
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  14. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Here's the limited zone in michigan the blue line and south you can only use straight walled cartridges, and only certain ones. They need to be .350 or greater, and the case needs to be a certain length. Just over an inch or so. The 350 legend and 450 bushmaster are popular for this reason. Both of those rounds can be used in an ar15, so they are extra popular. Screenshot_20201122-203446(1).png

    The logic is a little flawed, regarding the mandate and whether it's safer or not, but whatever.
    The lighter the gun, the more the kick. So the screenshot I showed with calculations for a common bullet for deer does indeed kick just barely lighter than the model 94. 5.85 or so is a very light gun. Going to an 8 lb gun probably won't mean much if you are just going to the stand and back, but if you are doing deer drives you are carrying a rifle that weighs 2 lbs more, you'll feel that all the time except when shooting.

    12.5 lbs of recoil isn't a lot, but if you are concerned with recoil, it's a big deal.

    I ran the numbers for the 170grain silvertip bullets we use in 30/30's, and in a 6.8 lb model 94 there's actually less recoil in the 30/30 than the 350 legend I ran the numbers for earlier. By a half lb. 11.99 lbs of recoil. What grain bullets are you shooting with the 30/30? I can re run the numbers of you want, also do you have a scope? I'm just going by the weights listed online for a model 94.

    There's also reduced recoil hunting ammo available. Remington makes 125 gr reduced recoil 30/30 hunting ammo that claims to have half the recoil compared to regular rounds.
     
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  15. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Around here, they used to not allow any rifles in the few more populated counties. That was changed a number of years ago and I've heard no backlash from this. Now I can use any gun down here where I live and not shotgun only.

    I hope they don't adopt this same dumb law/rule here as they do in Michigan, indiana, and Ohio.

    Fun fact, the 350 legend is based on a 223 case, just modified.
     
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  16. XXL

    XXL

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    This alone will likely keep Canada from making the switch. :zip:
     
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  17. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage

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    No.
     
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  18. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage

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    150 grain.
     
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  19. chris

    chris

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    Back in the day when most of SE WI was shot gun only for deer i went with a Savage bolt action rifled barrel slug gun. Most of the MFG ammo offerings in 12 ga ( 20 wasn't any better) were pretty anemic back then as well , so I made my own. IIRC 1oz slug at 18oo fps 12 ga, would hold 2.5" group at 200 yards. After a auto accident in the late 80's that left me unable to handle recoil for quite a while I switched to hand guns- not revolvers though. As rules were changed to allow them in shotgun zones - no stipulation for straight walled cartridges just a barrel length. At that point I was back to using 308 but in a hand gun as well as a few other rounds like 35 rem , 30-30, 7mm Waters. These were rounds I used in silhouette matches among others.

    I like to see the 350 ledgend in a revolver just a hare more oomph than the 357max, which got a bad rap and was choked out.
     
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  20. Horkn

    Horkn

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    Here in SE Wisconsin, I used to have a mossberg 500 with a rifled barrel and cantilevered scope mount on the barrel it was a factory mossberg barrel. That mossberg was my first new gun purchase when I was first legally able to. I saved money from birthdays and recycling to buy it. I used 3" sabot slug rounds in it. It hit your shoulder so hard that even as a teenager it was a lot. I took a few deer with it, but that shotgun with the choke tubes was used to take countless small game with it. I then went to a little softer shooting deer rifle in 7mm rem mag ruger m77 mkII ( hey, it still shoots a lot softer than that slug gun) . Love that gun. Now you can hunt with a regular rifle down here in SE Wisconsin, I might start hunting deer down here. I just haven't had to. What's funny is that with the farm fields down here, there's actually 300 yard shots that can be taken at deer. So that flat shooting 7mm rem mag is ideal for some plots. Others my 6.8 spc ranch rifle will work perfectly.

    Ok, it's better. Based off of 34-36 grains of powder. 10.3 lbs of recoil with 150 grain bullets.
    Screenshot_20201123-104439(1)~2.png
    Now there's that Remington " managed recoil" ammo. It says 50% less recoil. That should get you about 5 lbs of recoil. Add a better recoil pad and you should be golden. Screenshot_20201123-105019(1).png
     
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