Thinning 20 acres of pines... with WHAT?

Calling basod !!! He is our resident southern forester near the gulf coast. Also clemsonfor has experience with SYP.

 

I'll provide my 2 cents worth. I believe that the number of stems that you believe you should remove is based on a prescription that allows for a cut every 5-7 years. So you thin to a certain number of stems per acre which reduces competition and maximizes growth in diameter of the remaining trees. I seem to remember that some of the plantations would be planted, grown for 16 years and the clear cut. Each stem would yield two 2x4's and some pulp for paper production.

Based on what you said, it doesn't seem that earning money is your number one objective and not even near the top of your list. Saving money probably helps you meet your objectives. I would move forward with doing the work by hand with a chainsaw. Prioritize the work based on what will yield your objectives first. Start with identifying the areas to clear cut and work those first, then move on to the thinning operation. Try selling the poles to someone where they are in the forest. If you could get $0.50 each on the ground I'd think that might be a good deal for both the seller and buyer. You cut em and they drag them with an ATV or small tractor. Doing this would reduce your workload AND have someone in the forest with you for safety. Someone who's willing to do the work could get fencing materials pretty cheap.

To achieve your objectives with the least amount of work, all you'd have to do is girdle the undesirable stems. This involves running a chainsaw (or handsaw or axe) around the circumference of the tree to cut just below the bark. It cuts off the tree's vascular system and kills it. The tree then rots in place and falls over eventually. The effect is immediate reduction in competition for sunlight and water. The hazard is lots of snags that will eventually fall down. Of course you could finish cutting them later, but killing the stems would be quick and would get you on your way to a diversified property.

The other extreme would be to cut the trees and drag them out while to be chipped. As you mentioned, there's not much money in this now and taking the whole tree out tends to rob the soil of nutrients that would naturally replenish the soil when the needles and branches rot.

It sure if the land is homogeneous or diverse (streams, dry or wet areas, slopes, different soil types) as that may influence where you do the clear cut. Talk to an extension forester. You might be able to get one to walk the land with you. Forestry

When you get a chance, get some pictures on here so we can see what you have to work with. Good luck and thanks for taking care of your land!!!

 

My back started hurting just reading this.

 

Bill MacConnell, Veteran, Professor and UMass ski coach ran a chainsaw well into his 80's to clear ski trails at Berkshire East Ski area as a form of sweat equity to help pay for the university's use of the mountain. He didn't work fast, but he never let fear of work stop him from getting things done.... To me, he's a modern day folk hero. Someone I truly looked up to in school.

UMass Magazine Branches of Learning CFNR
THE OLD-TIME/NORTH-WOODS/TIMBER-CRUISER'S tea ceremony was "almost as complicated as the Japanese version," says forestry-professor/ski-coach/legend in-his-own-time Bill MacConnell `43, who experienced the phenomenon firsthand in the Maine woods right out of graduate school.

The ritual involved waist-deep snow; wet, dead wood ("Birch or spruce; couldn't be fir"); a "toy boiler" that came out of somebody's pack, along with the frozen sandwiches; and a pervasive flavor of mitten. "Had to be just perfect for those old-timers," says MacConnell, recalling those 30-below-zero days. "Quite a change from college life," he adds.

MacConnell's days at Massachusetts State College, and later Yale, and his interludes as a timber-cruiser. (MacConnell is colorful, too, on the subject of how much food it took to keep timber-cruisers people who inventory forests for their logging potential fueled in January: "You'd start out with oats, like horses. You'd get a pie-plate full of oatmeal, then a refill with bacon and eggs, then another with beans. And donuts `til you got sick.") But MacConnell is such a three-dimensional man that, listening to him, you feel how completely the details of brush, stand, creek, slope, and slog the details of woods and mountains are woven into his academic identity.

 

This is my weapon of choice. Knock 'em down, then drag them out and do what you please with them, firewood, sawlogs, or just stack them in a burn pile. A good operator can be very selective without much collateral damage, plus no stumps to deal with.

 

Some follow up.

- I am told that these trees are not profitable at first thinning. And I'm not even there yet (meaning the typical schedule around here), it might be 5-6 years away. I am told that I might have to come out of pocket to actually do a first thinning. Which surprises me. I figured there would be a small amount of profit.

- Whomever said girdling, yes, I def considered that. However, you have to go around the tree and I figure you could probably cut it down just about as fast. But I don't know for sure. And if you cut it down, it immediately brings in more light.

- I am not aware of loblolly pine being any good for fenceposts. Certainly not any good without the bark being removed and also being treated, and that might be pressure treated, and I am not aware of a po-boy method to do either of those things. I hate to waste trees, but I'm at a loss, scuze the pun.

- When I mentioned bulldozer in the first post, I was half-joking, not full-on joking, lol. Because I have seen a lot of oilfield drillsites cleared by a bulldozer and they def git 'r done and pretty quick. A forestry mulcher might give a dozer a run for the money; they eat trees, especially small pines like this, fast.

- I have seen a forestry shear on a Skidsteer type machine that cut cedar trees uber fast. That could be an option. I've also seen a rotary forestry feller on a Skidsteer that takes 'em down fast.

- I had forgotten that there is a very small Stihl saw, an ms150, quite a bit lighter than my Stihl ms200. Probably $500. Echo makes a 271 model for slightly more than half that amount of money that is almost as light, and slightly more powerful. Again, I don't know if you have to make more than one cut on these trees to bring them down, trying to just make one cut, it might bind, plus, if you make more than one cut, you could, hopefully, steer the fall. I guess the direction really doesn't matter, though. If more than one cut, that adds time.

 

My suggestion...Host an FHC GTG, these guys will travel hundreds of miles, bring hopped up saws, tow trailers to take the wood home, bring their own food and hooch and have your trees down by noon on Sunday!!

 

Another follow up.

After walking the site, using a chainsaw would be extremely difficult due to heavy brush and undergrowth. It is thick, very difficult to even find a path through there. Interesting... just five miles away there is a tract planted about the same time, and there is zero brush. The only difference I am aware of is the latter tract was a pasture my whole life until they planted the pines a few years ago. My tract has always been forest.

The other thing is that some of these stems are thicker than I thought. They are only 25' tall but a number are 8" thick at the base.

I think it will require a forestry operation (feller/buncher) or a forestry mulcher.

 

I'm no a forester but if your 20 acres was mine and it has no value on it's first thinning in 5 to 6 years I'd start now and thin it myself .
I'm not familiar with your 345 but a new FS 460 will do the job .
My old FS 550 or my 265rx have cleared a lot of small stuff , I can even take down an 8" with no bending over , a lot of the siviculture work around here is done with them but a good harness is a must .
You could heat your house , leave the tops and branches to decompose and enrich the soil , even hire a couple of kids off and on to do some dragging or running the brush saw .
If you have the time , lots of options are out there .
The planning out of all your woods trails to be efficient is also important .

 

I second this, fun and the job gets done.

 

My take is that this job is too big for you to handle alone. I would see if you can get someone to come in and do the job; maybe give them the wood if you don't want it and perhaps they will get enough money from the wood to do the job; they get compensated and you get the job done. First thing is to get some willing to come in and appraise it and let you know if they can do it and make some money; the equipment costs to operate and they have to pay salaries so they have to make money from the job or they probably won't be willing to do it.

 

Talk to a forester. They'll know the people who will take on a job like this and make it work out best for all parties involved.

 

I'm no help here, but would like to see some pictures of said area.

 

Haven't read the whole post yet but when we have pre-commercial thinning done they use the biggest brush saw (weed eater with blade setup) and they cut them back to 10x10.

 

I am a forester

 

I was also going to mention for 20 acres I have a guy to do the work and pay you a little. Won't make much at all bUT won't have to lift a finger.

 

How many years ago were these pics taken? That's some OLD equipment .
But there still a few guys around getting it done with stuff like this.

 

Most of those older loggers are like that. I have several that work on my contracts from time to time like that

 

There is a driver a few years younger than me. Works for himself. Has a truck from the mid 70s. Has it painted up nice. And he built the motor and has it turned up. Sounds good and pulls better. It's probably one of the faster trucks I have been behind. Still getting it every day pulling wood. I think it's a peterbuilt