"Things to Ponder" , cutting firewood observations

NG is cheaper in my area too, but it's only available in town.

 

I'm still around. Taking a "break" for the winter on wood.

I don't know of anyone actually selling wood for that much in this area. Maybe a couple guys have it LISTED at that price?

This summer there was a guy listing Canadian hard wood for sale for something like $750 a cord. The ad went on to trash Alaska birch and how the wood he had was so much better.
The ironic thing about is was the wood he was selling had less BTU/cord than birch.
Wish I had saved a copy of the ad. He made it sound like this wood was selling so fast he was hauling in truck load after truck load, but I seriously doubt it.

 

Hi Nate
Welcome
I imagine the fuel cost for transporting wood from Canada, to here in the Mat Valley, brings the price up considerable.

 

No doubt, also you can't bring logs/firewood into the US without it being heat treated (with certificate).

The whole deal just made no sense. If he was able to sell that $750/cord wood he needs to start selling ocean front property in Arizona! haha!


You brought up the natural gas prices vs wood. I think a person would be surprised how small the Enstar service area is. Some folks that do have natural gas just prefer wood... wood heat being more cozy, or for a backup, or some folks just using wood as a "stick it to the man" type thing.

 

If you have NG & elect to buy & heat with wood that costs more than $200 +/- a few bucks per cord.
IMO, You are losing $$ .
Not sure what the cost of heating oil is, but guessing somewhere near $250 to $350 per month to heat a home.
Buying wood gets more cost effective for those outside the NG service area.

I have a NG furnace.
I like wood heat, I have my time & near $40 per cord.
But if I had near $200/cord in the wood, NG for me.
Good thing I'm cheap & pay my laborer (me) less than minimum wage. LOL

 

On paper the break even is around $240 a cord between wood and natural gas.

Though it doesn't seem to work out like that for me.

Before I put the stove in I heated with gas. I kept the place at 65-68* and used about $1600 of gas a year

With wood heat I use about $600 of gas, a $1000 difference (gas still used for garage heat, hot water, clothes dryer and kitchen stove)

I burn right around 3.25 cords of wood, AND keep the house at 70*+.

At $240/cord that is $780.... so still $220 less than the natural gas.... hmmmmm.....

With those numbers it would be just under $310/cord break even.


I know several folks that I brought wood to said the same thing, used less wood with house warmer (comparing BTU to BTU of wood and gas). Have to wonder... gas meters not accurate? 1 ccf "should" be about 100,000 btus per Enstar. Boiler not really as efficient as claimed?



Oh for fuel oil... break even is about $675/cord at today's oil price (which is pretty low)

 

I heat with wood because I like fires. And I keep it much warmer with wood than natural gas.

 

Is the NG in AK locally produced or is it brought in? If I'm not mistaken, every drop of oil leaves AK to get refined.

 

For heating oil, which is my alternative, My break-even price would be $500+/cord and likely go up every year. No contest, & I don't buy wood anyway. I can only imagine what the oil will cost when I'm burning the wood that I'm processing right now, 5-6 years from now.

 

2 refineries in Alaska.

The one in Fairbanks (Gasoline & Diesel) is hooked right to the Trans Alaska Pipeline, (TAPS)
The usable waste products get pump back into the pipeline. Good deal for that refinery.
Much of it is delivered to the Anchorage market via the Alaska Railroad tanker cars

The one in Kenai, gets TAPS oil & Cook Inlet oil from oil tankers, barges (& some small volume local wells are pipelined to the refinery )
Product Pipeline across the Turnigan Arm to the Anchorage market.
Gasoline price in Kenai are more $$ than the same gasoline in Anchorage, (Politics)

TAPS oil is 26 Gravity .
CI crude oil is 34 API Gravity, (some wells produce 42 Gravity &
can be burned directly in diesel engines)

Several NG producing wells in South Central Alaska.
Lots & lots of NG it the state but , Fed & State politics preventing production.
Feds control more Alaska land than the State of Alaska.

Planning a 36" to 48" NG pipeline thru Canada to the lower 48 . But t there's No
plans to give many the communities of Alaska NG, or connect it into the existing NG pipeline infrastructure (Politics )

Kinda a "Longs winded" answer
but just barely touching the subject of
Alaska's energy resources.

Then there's ANWR, & all the misleading , distorted, publicized facts

 

Just for information I called for a heating oil delivery.
$3.86 / gallon 100 gallon minimum (delivered) .
@ 140,000 btu /gallon

with birch at 23.6 mill BTU/cord
$650 for an = amount of BTUs of oil.
Would be a lot less when you figure most wood stoves are less efficient than oil furnaces
and the moisture content of the wood you buy. (& the btu in wood calculates at 8600 per pound (which in reality is probably closer to 7000 to 7600 usable BTU or less due to the moisture content)

My guess would be somewhere near $500 for oil to break even with same BTU for birch.
Now add in the more work involved to stack the delivered wood, haul it to the
stove, load empty reload the stove 24/7.
A wood stove with bought wood is still work !
I can see where diesel (heating oil) is a lot more convenient to use for most folks.

At the cost of fuel to heat your home:
it shows that making your home more energy efficient can pay you back lots of $$$ over the years

 

Blaze King rates it's stove at 88% from what I've found, does that make sense?


My natural gas boiler is an 85% efficient unit, heats PEX tubing in the floor. If I figured equal efficiencies of the stove and boiler, I should burn more wood than I do.

If I kept the house at 65-68ish (like I did with gas) I'd probably burn about 3 cords. I usually burn somewhere between 3.25-3.5 a winter, that is keeping the house in the low 70s.

I use around 1000 CCF less gas using wood.
1000 ccf gas ~ 100,000,000 BTUs.... or about 4.2 cords

 

Is your PEX tubing fastened to a wooden floor structure, or is the tubing in a concrete slab?

 

Concrete slab.

 

Possibly you have a lot of heat loss into the ground. What do you have for insulation under (and around) the concrete slab?

 

2" foam, on the vertical of the edges of the slab, and 2-3ft out on the horizontal and underneath.

 

I'm new here. Live in Maryland right on the Chesapeake. (It's getting ready to freeze over for the first time in over 30 years.) I heat my house with wood that I get from people with trees either knocked down or they have had taken down. It's wonderfully rewarding. I've had winters where I've gotten by on 2.5 cords. This winter looks like I'll burn 6. I hand-split all my wood. I'm headed out today to keep working down the pile. Normally I'm done before now. But, this year work got in the way and I had an unusually successful year of gathering trees. One guy gave me four large Beech trees. It looks good, burns good, and is working me to death. I could split 5 times the Oak in the time it takes to split Beech.

The first post of this thread really resonated with me. I'm 58 and was born to my parents quite late. Pop was 42 when I came along. He used to lament that my generation was soft. I used to laugh it off. No longer. We were by comparison to his. There's no question about it. But, this crew coming behind us is softer still. Few things to me are better than coming in after a day outside working on wood with muscles barking, hitting that heat from the stove and the smells from the kitchen, and having a cold beer. It's an earned pleasure.

I don't have the greatest insights into the younger crowd. But, I do listen to a sports-talk show from DC on occasion where these guys are all in their early forties. When they get to talking about life experiences it just makes me cringe. One guy couldn't figure out how to hang a picture. The others said, "Hire someone. I wouldn't do that." One guy couldn't replace a headlamp in his car. None of them can operate a charcoal grill. And, even if they could they wouldn't because it's "an enormous time suck." And the cold has got them in a flummox. But, they can tell you anything you want to know about gambling and porn sites. These guys all have college degrees. What's unnerving is that the callers agree with them. Splitting firewood? That's not even on the radar.

One thing I do every year in January is go to Colonial Williamsburg. It's like hitting a reset button. The working class in those days were hard. They got it done because no one was going to do it for them. It's an insight that is lost today.

I still believe this is a country where if you get off your fanny and work hard you can make good things happen for yourself. It's harder though because we're surrounded by plenty of people who won't, but will take what you've earned. That's one reason firewood is so rewarding. You get it, it's yours.

Great posts. I've enjoyed reading them. Off to that Beech pile!

 

Bogydave… Your thoughts on why you burn wood are mine as well. I know some think I'm nuts wanting to get all sweaty and achy doing all that dangerous stuff (felling) just to heat the house, when all they have to do is call the oil company for heat. No explanation will ever do for those folks. I've been working on all of my gear set-ups as well, trying to build the better mouse trap. I enjoy that part a lot too. It's a great hobby… and a chance to get together with my son too. This photo is from last spring here in Maine, hauling some oak and ash out of our woods down back.



obb.

 

Very cool "log sled" Stinny.

 

Way cool.