I came across this. Had to laugh, but then again when people go looking for experts they may not truly find an 'expert'. ...no talk of seasoned firewood or burning habits...just 'get rid of it'. ..."I know you probably love your old Fisher, which has heated your house for two decades and undoubtedly paid for itself many times over in fuel savings, but you must prepare yourself for the likelihood that it won't pass the opacity test. Woodstoves of that vintage are criminal air polluters by today's standards, belching out thick plumes of lung-clogging particulate emissions often registering over 90% opacity. Your Fisher, all by itself, spews out more airborne particulates than twenty EPA approved woodstoves. Maybe you should consider doing a favor for your complaining neighbors (and your other neighbors on Planet Earth), and spend some of the fuel money your Fisher has saved you over the years on a new, EPA approved model. Your new stove would burn about half the wood, deposit about one tenth the creosote in your chimney, and liven up your living room with a stay-clear view of the fire. And your neighbors would be hard-pressed to tell, by looking at your chimney, whether you had a fire going or not!"... Here's the link: Sweep's Library - Is my woodstove grandfathered in?
Good point shack, I can't tell you how many threads & questions I've seen about folks trying to burn the same wood, same seasoning time in the new stoves & not getting any heat. I know that EPA approved stoves are more efficient, but truly dry wood emits very little visible smoke, & leaves almost no chimney build up behind. Those stoves do "force" people to burn dry wood though. Good post.
Omg people. Stop trying to rationalize using your old antiques... Just buy the new stove already. Worst thing about the epa stoves is the name. It gets the tinfoil hat and fox News gang suspicious that it's another nefarious guberment plot to keep them down/ruin the country. It would be nice if there was a way to retrofit some of the older stoves, just because they have such good looks and style, but I am doubtful that is possible given how the new stoves work. Im fond of the art deco designs on home heating units from the prewar Era. A guy in the area is always hocking them on Craigslist... Good looking units, but Uggh, all that smoke and the fuel consumption of a mid sixties Oldsmobile.
Exactly, because over the last 9000 years of burning wood to heat homes and cook, unimaginable carnage has taken place to "Planet Earth", says LodgedTree with incredible sarcasm; who is pretty sure he is biting into what I am sure is just pot-stirring... Just keep in mind the guy that is proposing global warming is the same guy who claims he invented the internet, has a $5000 a month electricity bill, claims the oceans are going to rise to climatic levels and yet owns a mansion on the California coast...seaside. Feel free to bash my intelligence level (and anyone else who does not believe EPA stoves are going to save the planet, and is nothing but a sensational hoax) by using condescending misspelling and conspiracy theory bias, but keep in mind I am equally sure for every EPA approved stove that delivered upon the promises given, 1000 people would have realized far more aid to the planet by investing in better windows and doors, crack sealing, and insulation.
I have friends that burn pre-EPA stoves pretty clean. They season their wood and don't cut-off the air to get longer burns. The temperature is regulated by the number of splits in a load. Yes, the don't have a viewing port and yes they would like longer burn times, but the love their classic stoves. They make concessions so they can keep it going. If I remember correctly, I have seen WeldrDave describe a smoke shelf that can easily be added to some Fisher stoves that helps with burn time and particulate. It is not as much which stove you burn, it is how you burn it, what you burn, and how far beyond its design specs that you try to burn it. I have a 35 year old stove in my downstairs family room. I only burn it when it is extremely cold outside. That might be a few days to a week during a cold spell. When I burn it there is no obvious smoke from its flue. Seasoned wood and proper burning. One of my neighbors has an NC-30. Viewing port is always black, smoke is always coming out of his flue. I try to talk to him about clean burning habits but he doesn't have the time... I have had neighbors complain to me about wood burners pointing to his house. Then they ask why I have soo much wood and don't burn? When I tell them I burn 24/7 they are surprised. As I said earlier, it is more about what you burn and how you burn and less about the stove... KaptJaq
I had a cast iron smoke dragon in my house when I bought it. I used it that winter. I found these forums that fall/winter and had an Ideal Steel the next winter. I'm on my third season with it. It heats better, longer, uses less wood and puts out very little pollution. You can't even smell that typical wood stove smell when I'm burning. It uses about half the wood overall and a full load burns double the time and then some. The clearances are so much less then the smoke dragon too. While the guy might be fear mongering in order to sell stoves the fact is that the only negative is shelling out money for a new stove. They outperform the old stoves in every way. If you are using it as your main heater then you can't really go wrong upgrading. If you are supplementing here and there with a smoke dragon it might not be worth it.
I burnt dry wood in my old stove, still do as it is in the shop, no smoke at all when its up to temp, the quote in the OP's post is naive at best ignorant at worst. My new EPA stove (had two of them now) does not burn "half the wood" of my old one by any means and puts out way less heat, if I had to do it all over again the old one would still be in the house. Edit-I also never had any more creosote with the old stove then I do with the new one.
I've seen a couple of ones on you tube, but unless you have a shop or a really well outfitted garage, it's going to likely cost as much or more than a new stove. If you can make it work, more power to you.
Ok Gang, let me jump in here before WW3, 4, and 5 starts... Let me say that "Nobody" here is wrong or right!!! I'll explain, Many here think about "pollution" and are very passionate about it. Many here don't think it to be a big deal, "I" for one am in that category and will explain why shortly. The EPA "banned" the BAD OLD SMOKE DRAGON for political reasons and a point of view shared by a pressured party. With that said, a lot also had to do with complains of folks "Puking" smoke into neighbor hoods and therefore got the whole thing on a roll. This may get lengthy so go get a beverage! Banning the non-epa stove was a "feel good" move and shut people up so the government could say, we did something! The Ol, smoke dragon such as the Fisher and several others can be modified to have a secondary burn area, "baffle" and it helps considerably. Now, are they "cat" stoves, No... not even close. But here's what I will say about that. "WITHOUT" getting into the science because that will start another argument, But "if" we hold ourselves to a standard of clean burning as best we no how to do, then that's all we can ask for! Let me point something out and this may give you some insight on just how "puny" our wood burning is in relation to everything else in burning standards. I have a very good friend who works for the USGS, has a Phd in atmospheric science and him and I have drank a many of Beers together, and I'd like to think I have an inside knowledge when it is explained like this: One solar flare does more damage to the ozone than we've done since the industrial age. Who put out forest fires 200 years ago? 2000 years ago" 10,000,000 years ago? Nobody! They burned for months or years... Are we going to ban the 85,000 commercial jets flying over head at any given moment just in the United States? "NO"... Are we going to ban the 12 million diesel trucks delivering our goods to stores and the 1+ million ships crossing the seas every year? "NO"... Why was coal a bad thing, now it's OK? Politics! How much poison and hundreds of other chemical things go into the air after one volcanic eruption? "Tons and tons"! The earth has been here 4.5 billion years, man has been "industrialized" for about 200+. Do you really think "we, man" has killed the planet? MY Good friend say "NO"! Are we helping with the pollution and global warming, "yes" but it's not on the scale as you may think and the "doom and gloom" folks want you to believe we are! Remember how many millions and millions of acres just recently burn't in California, Alaska, Colorado, and just to name a few states. Where did that smoke go? The earth has been through at least 4 ice ages! Did my Dodge truck kill the environment then when it warmed again? Folks, here's why I say nobody is right or wrong. If you feel you are burning correctly and clean as best you can, that's all that matters. Wether it be with a cat stove or a smoke dragon. Can you do things to help the efficiency, yes! There are thousands of articles out there on stove efficiency and parts per million and bla, bla, bla... How does it "really" effect us? Very, very minuscule. Also remember, 100+ years ago everyone heated their home the same way as most of us, There was no Trade, Carrier, or heat pumps, were still here! I will not condemn or condone either method or someones belief in doing what they feel is right. I have looked at this in many ways and when I was teaching I researched the facts that "are not published"! My friend has studied this for 25+ years and if you really sit and think outside the box you'll get it! There is room for good and fair debate about this issue but "PLEASE" no insults or arguments because it can go on forever. Now wether you agree or disagree with my input here, they are "facts". I do promote the cleanest most efficient way of burning but if all you have is an old stove and can't afford a $2500.00+ CAT stove then do it the best you can. I for one will "never" change from a Fisher but I also modified it to the best it can burn. Lastly, The Chinese burn around a billion tons of trash and plastic a year, do we here about that, "no"..... I don't think our little wood stoves are going to matter much compared to that! I hope I didn't insult anyone and it wasn't meant to do so! Thanks for reading. Dave
Bingo Dave, even the old stoves will have some secondary burn if burnt correctly, not sure how much the baffle helps but I am sure it helps some.
Sws, I have to say a couple things on this comment. I have a friend who burns a "new/two year old" Harmon, my Fisher is 37 years old and "I" burn just as clean and about the same amount of wood as he does! I burn between 4 to 5 cord in a "bad" winter. That's not bad for heating a 2000sqft home. If anyone is burning that good or much better for it's size then I tip my hat to you but I don't know of any so far. My smoke output is nearly non existent and I'll put this old girl up for the challenge any time.
We should want to burn more efficiently simply to save on heating costs....not because you think burning 4 cord a year versus 7 cord is going to make a measurable impact. It wont. Not even if every wood burner in the USA cut wood consumption in half it wouldnt make a measurable impact...other than saving us money (to spend on big trucks and SUVs!) Like WeldrDave said - the airplanes, powerplants, ships, etc around the planet everyday put more contaminants into the air than all our wood burning could do in a lifetime. I can buy a brand new CAT stove for $2500 or a used Fisher for $400...its up to each of us to determine if the wood savings in the newer stove (if there even are any, some people argue theres no improvement) is worth the cost versus a smoke dragon. As for me, I'll keep burning in my non-EPA smoke dragon OWB until its sh*ts the bed, then I'll go drop the coin on a new model. It'll be cool burning 6 cord a year instead of 9 but that 3 cord savings isnt even close enough to convince me to upgrade before my current boiler bites the dust. Now if the EPA wants to ship me an EPA-approved OWB free of charge, I'll gladly install it
This is like the carburetor vs fuel injection debate from yesteryear... When something better comes along there is always this, well if I do this I can match the new hotness, and I know a I guy who gets better mileage with his old (whatever... carburetor) , etc.... It's progress folks. Take it for what it is and enjoy it.
I agree! If it'll change and make things much better, "Horse vs. car" But, heat is heat is heat.... And there is an old saying. KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid! No need for a $6000.00 stove when a $500.00 one will do the "same thing". No need for a nuclear reactor when a campfire will suffice.
6k? I paid 929 bucks for my evil EPA Drolet. Best money I ever spent. Now, vs spending 500-600 on a used smoke dragon? Hands down the new one is the way to go.
Hypothetically . Fireplace911 on here was a salesman for a wood stove store and I did see some for $3400.00
