In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Sitting back and contemplating what pellets will sell for this year...

Discussion in 'The Pellet Bag' started by corncob, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. Skier76

    Skier76

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,296
    Likes Received:
    11,650
    Location:
    CT and SoVT
    The local Home Depot is stocked up again. Looks like they had about two dozen pallets out back when I was there last week.
     
    bogieb, Orson_Yancey and jtakeman like this.
  2. Iron Stove

    Iron Stove

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    Location:
    Central CT
    Probably be gone in days, especially considering the price is easily 60-80 ton lower than the brands at pellet houses.
     
    bogieb and jtakeman like this.
  3. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,997
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    Even at 500 a ton compared to say HHO, it's less. What I find interesting is, diesel isn't coming down in price at all even though it comes off the cat cracker below gasoline so it costs less to produce and this country runs on diesel, not gasoline. Everything you get (including pellets) is transported by diesel trucks. Something is very screwed up in mudville. I have a good idea what it is but I won't say because it's political and we all know that politics are verboten on this site.

    Just got another increase in our per KWH rate in our electric bill. Our electrical provider is being sneaky and doing it a little at a time.
     
    Softwood, bogieb and Orson_Yancey like this.
  4. Iron Stove

    Iron Stove

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    Location:
    Central CT

    Mostly true. There is less diesel in a barrel of crude than gasoline. And right next to diesel is #2, kerosene, and jet fuel ( middle distillates) And every region or well drilled for oil can be a different consistency, light or heavy, Texas tea, sweat or sour ( sulfer content), and effects what can crack out of it. In the northeast, due to limited pipelines, a lot of diesel or #2 can come by barge, and even foreign refinery. The USA as a whole trades a lot of crude with other countries for crude that our refineries can work with easier. Not to mention, we havnt built a refinery in decades, while demand is stronger than ever.

    WHY spend a few billion for a refinery, when the government wants to be electric by 2035?
     
    Softwood, bogieb, corncob and 2 others like this.
  5. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,856
    Likes Received:
    109,143
    Location:
    Vermont
    bogieb or others; I once read that a ton of softwood pellets contained about same BTUs as 100 gallons of heating oil(#2) is that not accurate?
    What are general efficiency ratings of a good pellet stove?
     
    bogieb likes this.
  6. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,997
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    Both mine are 85% efficient. I believe 48KBTU input and 45K BTU output. Far as HHO, I have no idea. Of course that is based on a clean stove. As the combustion ash builds up it insulates the heat exchanging surfaces and drops the overall efficiency.

    I will say, even running wide open the venting pipe never gets hot, just warm,. but then it is double wall so the inner stainless liner has an air space between it and the outer pipe.

    I rarely run wide open, no need to. Half the overall heat range on mine Mine go from an idle (HR1) to flat out (HR9), usually I run on HR5. and both mine run on remote thermostats.
    Having heated with both chunk coal and chunk wood in the past, I find the biomass stoves to be much easier to deal with and like wood and coal the heat output on mine is constant whether it's idling (HR1) or running at (HR5). Neither of mine have ignitors though I could install them if I wanted to. A cold start on mine is a hand full of firestarter soaked pellets and a match, light them, close the door and in 5 minutes it's cooking along. The other thing I like is they are very frugal on electricity usage. Both mine draw less than 150 watts running. My wife likes them as well. She can load the hopper when it needs filled and the cats and dog like it too. The lounge around it on the floor all the time.
     
    Canadian border VT and bogieb like this.
  7. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,997
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    I won't live long enough to see that anyway and candidly, I don't believe the grid, without major upgrades could handle that anyway. Gavin Newsom in California proved that this summer when he told EV owners not to charge their cars and curtail electricity usage because the existing grid was over taxed. and then turned around and outlawed internal combustion engines to be sold there. Guy is a little bit wacky in my view.
     
  8. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,997
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    Farm and Fleet just went to $289 a ton. TSC is still at 209. (Hardwood pellets). I have to add that there isn't a bio mass stove for sale in any retail store around here now. Even the crappy ones are gone.
     
    Canadian border VT and bogieb like this.
  9. Iron Stove

    Iron Stove

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    Location:
    Central CT
    Toyota and Elon musk got together a few years ago, both experts in their division, Toyota the largest car manufacturer , Tesla the electric experts. They both concluded going all electric isn't possible anytime soon. The grid is too antiquated , fragile, and stressed to max. And there isn't the generating capacity to replace the 8.7 MILLION barrels of gasoline consumed every day. Every day.
     
  10. bogieb

    bogieb

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Messages:
    11,489
    Likes Received:
    69,730
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    According to the NH gov, a ton of pellets (not softies - just pellets) equals about 120 gallons of oil

    Wood pellets versus oil.jpg

    The P-series Harman's are said to have 78.5% efficiency. My previous house used oil and the boiler was most likely 85% (the 2007 model, not the 1988 model).

    Using the numbers from the state of 658 gallons (at 5.84) versus the max of 6 tons (at 500), oil would cost $3,843 and pellets would be $3,000
     
    Canadian border VT likes this.
  11. bogieb

    bogieb

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Messages:
    11,489
    Likes Received:
    69,730
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    That is very true (the entire statement, not just the bolded - but I just want to comment on the bolded part).

    They have been making noises in the last several years about New England's power grid. It soon won't be capable unless there are some major efficiency changes or other methods come online (and we all know that new projects take 5-8 years - assuming there aren't a million lawsuits by EPA/NIMBY's/historical societies etc.). This year it is not just capability, but uncontrolled and volatile costs on the energy market.
     
    Canadian border VT likes this.
  12. Scot Linkletter

    Scot Linkletter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    2,035
    Location:
    Athens, ME
    The New England grid is suffering. There's a power plant in Massachusetts that was scheduled to retire, the Mystic Generating Station. It's rated for 1,998 MW. Without it, the grid would be undersupplied. So, ISO New England has implemented a scheme where rate payers are paying to keep the plant running.

    Here's an example: 2 years ago my fixed rate for wholesale power was $0.043/kwh. Now it's $0.126/kwh. That's power only, not delivery, and without the new fees to keep the Mystic plant operating.

    There's some other shifty schemes going on too, like Net Energy Billing Credits.
     
    Softwood and bogieb like this.
  13. Scot Linkletter

    Scot Linkletter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    2,035
    Location:
    Athens, ME
    Here's some reference. Day Ahead wholesale prices for tomorrow vs 2 years ago in $/MWh. Divide by 1000 for $/KWh. So the peak of $211.85/MWh is $0.21185/KWh.

    Tomorrow:
    upload_2022-11-21_15-29-6.png

    Two years ago:
    upload_2022-11-21_15-29-52.png
     
    corncob and bogieb like this.
  14. Birddog91

    Birddog91

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Location:
    connecticut
    Got my Matras, not sure if I Like them yet. I had them mixed in with some leftover pellets i burned earlier in week (last week) they throw off the heat, but my glass door was thick with black soot. I could tell when I was burning them vs the rest of the other bag. I had only burned 2 bags after a heavy cleaning in the fall and a quick clean before the matras. I am fooling around with the damper to see if I can adjust the flow better for these. Will run a few bags and see, started up today and the glass was getting dark immediately. Hope it is not a bad batch like I got with VT's a few years back.
     
    bogieb likes this.
  15. Birddog91

    Birddog91

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2014
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    1,080
    Location:
    connecticut
    To add, the other bags of pellets had light film at best.....
     
    bogieb likes this.
  16. Iron Stove

    Iron Stove

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    Location:
    Central CT
    Just received a email from my dealer. They are basically at point of just selling individual bags of pellets, and have temporarily sold out of everything by the ton. They are eagerly awaiting truckloads to arrive, but the season has surprisingly surpassed even their robust extra orders by incredible demand brought on by energy markets.
     
    jtakeman, Orson_Yancey and bogieb like this.
  17. ttdberg

    ttdberg Pellet Pig

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
    Messages:
    3,575
    Likes Received:
    15,895
    Location:
    CT
    This is the new norm around here. It’s been brewing since September. All the local shops are in this boat. This is like the winter of 2013-2014 again, only this time it started before the heating season. Concerned for the 5-bags at a time buyers this winter.
     

    Attached Files:

    jtakeman, Orson_Yancey and bogieb like this.
  18. ttdberg

    ttdberg Pellet Pig

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
    Messages:
    3,575
    Likes Received:
    15,895
    Location:
    CT
    Like seeking out the most expensive gas station around to fill up your tank.
     
    jtakeman, bogieb and slvrblkk like this.
  19. slvrblkk

    slvrblkk

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,638
    Likes Received:
    29,493
    Location:
    Northampton, PA
    EXACTLY like that lol
     
    jtakeman and ttdberg like this.
  20. Iron Stove

    Iron Stove

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    Location:
    Central CT
    Yes, uncharted teritory. I honestly don't know how winter will go. I see most saying another warm winter. I'd say with the way the country is going, our luck would be a hard winter, and stresses energy, weather it's oil, nat gas, electricity or pellets. There is major worries about the grid in New England, with it basically powered by nat gas.

    Conserve, and have a plan B.
     
    jtakeman and Canadian border VT like this.