I think I would really like to give residential solar a try. But at my age and declining health, I can't help but think I would only see the investment and not the payback. I did the mini split thing because I have next to nothing invested. I just happened to step in a the right time.
Also, add in the annual increase to homeowners policy for that over $60K...... "My" solar company told me "average life span is 20 years for panels with hopefully 80% functionable efficiency still but in reality, less than that." "New math" ???
^ The numbers on the panels efficiency is correct. The hidden component missing is that when someone does a solar install, the panels themselves are usually the cheapest component. Labor is usually the most, followed by the inverter and last the materials- depending on how you calculate the cost. Think of it along the lines of a wood stove install. Today a new stove might be $2000, but so is the piping. After 20 years if someone needed to replace their panels, current prices are somewhere in the $200-300 range. For my house that would be somewhere in the $4800 - $7200 to replace the panels. Granted it would cost something to have someone replace the panels so that'd be a factored in cost.
I think you are correct, it is unlikely that you would see any payback. I have a friend who keeps saying she wants to get solar. I keep pointing out to her that her trailer is surrounded by trees so she is in shade a lot of the time - probably most of the time since she's in the middle of the woods. On the south side part of her roof, the 80-100' tall trees are probably 20 ft away. I get that she probably has a pretty big electric bill but she isn't going to help anything by going solar. Google doesn't have a current overhead of the area where she put in the trailer 2 years ago, but she is about halfway between the house and Peasley Road. She probably has less clearing and it is all on the north side for her septic. This picture was taken at straight up high summer sun Even if she cut down trees, the instant result would be that her trailer would be really hot during summer - and she doesn't have any type of AC (which is fine since she is in the shade). She might even have to heat more in winter since the windbreak would be gone. The only good thing would be she could probably get the wood cut for free and store up a bunch for her fireplace (that uses an electric blower). Solar - it's not for everyone or every circumstance. I would never pretend otherwise.
I guess I'm lucky, my insurance didn't increase at all. I even changed insurance companies this past fall, without any penalties. Maybe because it is a pretty small system comparatively speaking.
Here's some simple math. Total cost of our system was $18,468 it produces 13,000kWh/year x $0.26/kWh = $3380. $18468/$3380=5.3 years ROI and that's not even taking into account our savings by not having to buy gas but including that math might get a little fuzzy.
If I do just simple math, at today's electric prices, then my ROI is 11.1 years. Produced 6.8 mwh last year, using today's cost of around $0.24 is $1638, divided into total cost of $18.53. Pretty close to the 10.8 years I arrived at using more complicated math which included my RECs. I sometimes get too much down in the weeds when I could make things much simpler for things that don't have to be totally accurate, such as in this case
Than you; bogieb and Dave for the maths Friend of family just installed (2) 6x9 trackers, meaning on poles that move, For 18k ish. I for my application prefer ground mount, they get 30% more usable sun. I prefer not to put holes in my roof. whole lot easier to follow someone that has all charts and experience
I've heard trackers are great. Also ground mount can be cleaned of snow fairly easily so is preferred by those who go off grid. I've also heard bifacial panels are kicking but during winter. Unfortunately tracker and ground mount options weren't available to me because of various constraints. The good news is that with standing seam roof, no holes had to be drilled, just clamps are used. I totally understand not wanting to put holes in a roof!
Yesterday was the first day since last fall that my system produced more than I used, barely. Had a rare full day of sun (although I think we've had more of those in the last 2 weeks than all of the rest of winter. Actually, I would have used more, probably around 25kwh for the day, if I'd had the mini split produce heat last night. But with temps dropping like a rock once the sun set (and headed for single digits), I decided to enlist the P43 and you can see the difference in usage when I switched over.
Actually had a few days of sun this month. Yesterday the arrays produced enough energy that I hit the tipping point of producing more power (239.3 kwh) than I've used for the month (236.5 kwh). Today is supposed to be cloudy and cooler so it may swing back the other way by a little, just for a short time. With warmer weather here, the mini split is running less, and when the temps stay above freezing overnight the dreaded "defrost" cycle isn't run, and I believe that is the biggest energy draw (or at least most wasteful for energy). Add that I've been able to open curtains/shade to bring in passive solar heat gain during the day, and the conditions have been favorable.
This has turned into kind of a brag page for those of us that went solar- so with that in mind, take this observation with a grain of salt. From the onset when I bought my system in 2015 I had it sized to accommodate a central air system and an electric car. Those were two things I wanted to add to my house one day and wanted to be ready for it. In the years that went by I slowly converted some items over to electricity- and I've said this before in the thread but tools / lawn care / a chainsaw / etc. And during that time my panels were considerably more productive than my personal usage so I ran a surplus month to month and at the end of the "solar year" when the electric company settles up with me in March I'd have such a credit that most years I didn't even have to pay the monthly fee associated with being attached to the power grid. in 2019 I purchased a plug in hybrid vehicle- still kept running a surplus. Last year we installed the central air / heat pump system, deleting the NG furnace. We ran all summer with the AC, and most of the winter we ran the heat pump. I had a heavy reliance on the wood stove when it was cold, but every day my wife has the mini split in her office set to 70. We received our electric bill this March recently. I had been anticipating needing to pay something above the hook up fee we had been paying this year, but I came away with a 10kWh surplus. I still have some space to grow into this system a bit more- but I'm also shopping for an e-bike for when my kids are out of daycare so I can ride to work when I don't have to pick them up after work. I'm only 5 miles from work door to door. Below I'm attaching a month by month breakdown of my usage with some data points for reference. Our monthly fee for being on the grid is $9.62 If anyone has any questions I'll answer to the best of my ability if I'm able to.
I don't think of this thread as a brag thread but people sharing their real life experience with a system that most of us are not familiar with so we don't have to rely on the hype of the advertisers of the product. For that I am grateful.
I think that has been what we are going for. I have been hoping that the journal of my experience over the last 18 months will be informative for those looking for information. And DaveGunter and yooperdave (who started this thread) have shared a wealth of info (even if it has been negative experience dealing with installers and/or cost). I have directed a few people to this forum thread (who otherwise wouldn't be on this forum) for real life examples that you just can't get from reviews. Yes, I have been very happy with my system, but I've made no secret that I'm in for the long haul and the payback period for my circumstance is longer than a lot of people would be willing to deal with. We have underscored that solar isn't for everyone/every circumstance in several different sections of this thread. Hopefully both those reveals will get people looking into solar to be realistic with their expectations and help them understand the realities (On a regular basis I see people on FB pages who complain that their solar panels perform poorly in shade or on cloudy days - well that is just poor understanding of what a system can / can't do) Hey, got me to go reread the beginning several pages before I realized I was going down a rabbit hole
My house was in 96% of totality during Monday's eclipse. The weather cooperated for a change and we had clear skies nearly all day. It was cool to see the event, and also cool to see it reflected in th tracking logs. At 96% totality, it was still plenty bright outside, with no birds or animals being affected (like they were in places that actually got dark). It seemed brighter than on a medium overcast day. At about the 2:30 mark is where the production starts going down from the talletst two pillars. 2:30 coincides with the time that the moon started its journey in frnt of the sun. I have no idea why those 2 pillars just before suddenly rose, but there were a few high wispy clouds so maybe it caught some cloud edges (or maybe we got some extra light from the moon edge). Between 3:15 and 3:30 production went down to 0.3kw (The most coverage was at 3:34-3:27 I think). Between 4:30-4:45, it was back up to 3.2 kwh, which is about right for that time of day at this time of year. Despite the eclipse, Monday was actually my highest solar production day so far this year at 33kwh. Tuesday beat it at 38kwh (two sunny days in a row - a miracle). But now we are back to the overcast and rainy weather so it will probably be another couple of weeks before I touch those numbers again.
Actually yesterday's was better than Thursday's production (6.2kwh on Thursday versus 15.1kwh on Friday). Although yesterday's production had a vastly larger delta producing anywhere from 0.0kwh (for a 15 minute time frame) to 4.2kwh. Amusing to see that there were a couple of 15-minute points in time that the system actually produced less than during any point during the eclipse
So...... All of you owners of solar arrays.....do you have any regrets? What would you have done differently?
No regrets. If I could go back and do anything differently I'd have started buying stock in the energy company with the money I offset from my electric bill. They're making cash hand over fist. (coming back to add that I do not have any backup batteries- no opinion otherwise if it’s a good idea or not- just a straightforward grid tied solar array)
