In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Replace a working water heater?

Discussion in 'The DIY Room' started by brenndatomu, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    Not for dehumidifiing. Just simple on-demand hot water.
    Slightly more expensive than any other HW appliances. Some more install needs like HPHW, mainly gas connections.
    The tankless are used in commercial and camp sites with high use here.
    Ours hangs on an outside wall with venting for in and out air thru the wall. In warm places ( like CT. or GA. ) they can be installed outdoors.
    Truth: no money saved with usage since the worn body stays in the shower longer. :whistle:
    European hotels had coin operated tankless to limit use. But that was a few decades past in another life for me.:(
     
  2. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    Dumf if you want tankless go for it!! My neighbors are plumbers WILL NOT work for my house!
    My friends paid 4,000 dollars to have tankless installed twice to save $$. Both times minerals from well killed heater in less than 2 years!! Not my version of saving money!

    Furthermore I know other other countries do things different.. Just because Europe or another continent does it. Does not make it a great idea here, for me. I am not driving a mini or fiat either!
     
  3. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    This ^ ^ ^ they were all the rage for a while...but many places really drag their feet selling tankless now due to the maintenance issues...I know several people that removed theirs.
    If you don't have hard water (but many (most?) places do) then they may be fine.
     
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  4. Semipro

    Semipro

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    Another benefit of HPWHs:
    We have hard water and have found that our HPWH handles the minerals better than our electric-resistance units. (we have one of each now).
    Since our HPWH's freon-filled heating coil surrounds the tank and runs at a much lower temp, the mineral buildup has not been a problem since we use the Eco mode which doesn't engage the backup resistive elements.
    In our electrical resistance WH I have to clean out often the minerals that form readily on the resistance elements and then drop to the tank bottom. The high temps these elements run at really pulls the minerals out of the water. This WH actually acts as a softener since its pulling minerals out of solution. A low energy density element helps with this. They are longer and doubled back.
    We considered tankless but:
    • no hot water storage in an outage
    • hard water would be problematic
    • the high amp draw is not good with our solar/generator backup system (the HPWH is great for this)
    • we'd have to run a new high amperage wiring circuit
    • value for what you're getting is low compared to the options
    • some tankless units don't handle low flow operating conditions well
     
  5. Eric VW

    Eric VW Moderator

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    Weird.
    My parents had a gas fired Rinnai, which they flushed once a year.... for 15 years til they moved.
    :yes:
     
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  6. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    Whatever the water PH, the tankless need flushing 1x/year like Eric says.
    It's simple, just run(pump) vinegar thru the coils for an hour or less to clear the coils.
    The used vinegar kills weeds.
    Ours on LP is on its 20th year. Total cost < $1600.
    P.S. No singing in the shower.:singingintherain:
     
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  7. TurboDiesel

    TurboDiesel

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    "If you mow your lawn and find a 500 gallon propane tank, you might be a redneck"

    :rofl: :lol:

    ;)
     
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  8. Highbeam

    Highbeam

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    Garbage power from a contractor style open framed genset. The lack of ground rod is not the problem as you found. Once you go to an inverter genset, it's hard to go back. The power from the inverter genset is better quality than the line power from the utility. Of course, this will save fuel and NOISE as well. Sometimes you will need the big 6500 for high wattage needs like a well pump or an AC but if so, I would tend to steer you away from that portable thing and into a permanent stand by generator solution. Since I don't need to power the well or AC, the little 3000 watt inverter does great with no humming from the ceiling fans or flicker on TV screens.
     
  9. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    Go Honda EU 7000iS: quiet, reliable, runs tankless, inverter, 2 RPM options, GFCI plugs, batt start, simple oil change, etc........ ( This gen will even blow your nose. )
    Cons: $$$$, heavy.
     
  10. Highbeam

    Highbeam

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    That’s a nice one but there are better options. That guy is fuel injected and pushing 5000$.

    I like the 2 generator solution. A smaller inverter for regular loads and then a big noisy hoss for once per day well pump, clothes dryer, oven, or welding.

    If you honestly have a long term or constant need for more than 3000 watts and/or 240 volts then just install a real mounted backup power supply. These can be plumbed to a big propane tank for ease of use.
     
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  11. mike bayerl

    mike bayerl

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    Well, y'all convinced me. Gonna get a 50 gal heat pump water heater installed Friday, replacing my 20 y.o. resistance unit. Next on the list is the 20 y.o. A/C coil or maybe the roof. :makeitrain":heidi:
     
  12. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    No, Honda is $4000. with NO install costs like a standby gen. Yes, F.I. like all vehicles nowadays; tech up to date like your cellphones, PCs., Name it.
    K.I.S.S. with this rig that does the two gen solution.

    We rejected the Kohler/Generac standby gen for many reasons. High cost.
    Need for LP tank that may go for only a few days at 24/7.
    Warranty states that it has to be run 24/7 when in use.
    The so called mafia warranty that charged for maintenance/year ( can't change oil or plugs DIY ).
    Noise. ( I said "noise". )
    Oh yes, a friend was charged extra for a "cold weather kit" in Maine !
    And, it needs to be run weekly using gas. Needs.
    So while we can pull out the Honda, run it when we NEED power, it does the job.
     
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  13. Farmchuck

    Farmchuck

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    This is all quite intriguing to me. Can someone recommend a specific brand/ model high performance energy efficient water they’ve heard good reviews on or have personal experience with? Thanks
     
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  14. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    This is the one I got...people tell me these actually have some pretty darn good specs.
    Menards has a better deal on them now than when I bought mine, which was the lowest price that I had seen up to that point.
    https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...71-c-8688.htm?tid=-5888820524521747500&ipos=4
     
  15. Semipro

    Semipro

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    Is this one capable of having ducts connected to the inlet and outlet? It appears so.

    It looks like the one shown here.
    Let’s Ride These Heatwaves With Heat Pumps

    Ducting really opens up some possibilities. It would be a real challenge to duct our Geospring.
     
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  16. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Yes...I have my intake ducted up to the ceiling so it is getting the warmest air...and the discharge has an elbow on it blowing the cool air right at the base of my wood furnace...in the winter when the furnace is on there is really quite the air current running through there!
     
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  17. Farmchuck

    Farmchuck

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  18. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    Rinnai.
     
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  19. Semipro

    Semipro

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    I realize you're planning new but just in case you come across a new old-stock blue top (1st gen.) Geospring. Avoid it. They have a history of lots of problems.
     
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  20. Farmchuck

    Farmchuck

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    Thank you sir!
     
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