Production Woodstock IS

Now that you mention it, we haven't seen that sled flame (tertiary flame) up behind the cat since installing the padded air paddle.

 

Ah, now the worst of all things: we may be down to choices.... do you want a clean burning stove, or a stove that does not contain an alarm clock bell?

I hope you did not throw that original paddle valve too far away.... I think the felt padded valve may open later and admit less air if the padding was not compensated for in the bi- metal spring. A possible fix for the fix that followed the fix <may> be a washer(s) of the same thickness of the felt. But I would check with W.S. before making any adjustments. But I believe the cat. air supply should supply enough air to fully combust any normal amount of smoke, even from a large, smoldering, firebox full of wood.

Brian

 

That is interesting news, the smoke you say you got prior to you moving the air damper and the secondaries engaging. I would have thought, at those temperatures there would be no sign of any smoke. I wonder if Brian is onto something with the bi-metallic flapper valve contributing or not working as the original valve did. I wonder if WS could see any of this when they were testing the replacement valve before sending them out? Raising eyebrows now....

 

Any difference in air is insignificant given the surface area of the square that draws in the air. It opens pretty wide. I think the new flapper is fine.
There really isn't any precident so I'm not even sure I WANT my cat to have its own secondaries. Regardless, it is easy to pull them back into the firebox so in the end it will end up as one more parlor trick to keep around

 

I agree, you had the experience, you know how it came to be and it's more like a 'one and done' kind of thing.

I have found a nice routine with the outdoor temps we are having the last 10 days or so. The 12 hr burns are working so well. I have been able to 'set it and forget it' . Since my schedule has been very demanding lately it's nice to know the IS is not a worry when I can't be there as often as I like. My wife has understood my routine with burn times and how to fill the stove etc and this has also made this part of the puzzle a little easier too.

 

I removed the cat.combuster to clean it yesterday 'cause the IS was 6 weeks old. There was absolutely nothing in it, no fly ash, no cells clogged, see right through it. The cat did not need to be cleaned.
Soft bristle horsehair brush and I blew through it even the corners but nothing came out.

 

Ok you all who have installed the IS already, mine should be coming within a couple of weeks. I have two questions for all y'all:

1) Should I bolt on a couple of 2x4 s onto the sides and bring it in that way? I will have to bring it up a couple of stairs to get it into the house from the pickup, and I have two level changes (one stair and the hearth). Or, should I try to get a dolly? I will most likely have 2-4 other guys helping me take the old one out and bring in the IS. I plan on taking off the sides and door, but am not sure I want to take out all of the soapstone/firebrick.

2) Should I do the burn ins to cure the paint while it is outside? I could leave it in the bed of the truck and do the burn ins since I have a working stove anyway. I am a little afraid that if I do the burn ins in the house I will make it too cold with the windows open. I am already burning 24/7. I MIGHT have a couple of days before I can get the crew over to help me install it anyway. Or, should I just bite the bullet and do initial paint cures in the house. If I do the burns outside, I will need to un-crate it. But, I might un-crate it anyway to get rid of some of the weight.

Thanks....

 

I experienced similar flames multiple times with the old flapper.

 

I'm hoping that when WS designed the ceramic padded valve as the "fix" for the alarm-clock-valve that they tested it; installed it on the "frankinstien" version of the IS in the WS "lab" (the IS with the o2/co/co2 etc probes on it) and burned test fires. I'm hoping that they chose a bimetalic strip for the padded-valve that allows the same as or better than test-burn results as the original valve had. Have one of you guys contacted WS regarding this question?

 

Take off the sides, sled, door, collar, lid, and firebrick (but note where they fit), and use one of those flat furniture dollys that is wide enough (30 inches?) and you should be all set. I've moved this stove three times now and this was the easiest way and worked with only two people but have another around if possible.

I would just do the curing inside- I don't think it is worth the trouble. It wasn't too terrible. Try to leave the thermometer off the paint until it cures though or it might leave a mark.

 

Take off the sides, sled, door, collar, lid, and firebrick (but note where they fit), and use one of those flat furniture dollys that is wide enough (30 inches?) and you should be all set. I've moved this stove three times now and this was the easiest way and worked with only two people but have another around if possible.

I would just do the curing inside- I don't think it is worth the trouble. It wasn't too terrible. Try to leave the thermometer off the paint until it cures though or it might leave a mark.

 

It had some field testing I know about, but really have you watched how far it opens? That bimetallic strip bends pretty far and that air comes in under some vaccum I think. The only thing that determines the amount of air is the size of the inlet. I could buy that it MAYBE opens slightly later- but only by a minute or so and that would even out after that minute. I haven't noticed any difference in performance in the three different valves I tried on the production model.

 

Yep, maybe they did. But the last time I was there (Sep.) the new Franklin was in the lab and that was pretty much abandoned due to W.S. being overwhelmed with I.S. orders. Of course I am not speaking for them and the new valve may be well tested; my thoughts are based entirely on the thickness and shape of the new valve. There is a distinct bend in the bi-metal strip, at least on mine, that does not seem to be present on the older, all- metal types. That and the added thickness of the actual valve flap would make the valve open later and open less at any given temp. is the bi-metal is the same, which again, I do not know. ??

Brian

 

On a different topic, how are you folks with the ash pan option making out with it? I find the slots in my grate are so narrow that it really takes a lot of raking, back and forth, to get the ash out of the stove. Not a big problem in these warmer temps. (into the 40's everyday here) but when it gets colder, I am not going to want to let the stove burn down low enough to have nothing but a bed of coals left. I know the slots are narrow to sift the ash out of the coals, and that works fine but I think I may want to trade some fine coals (which mostly burn up in the ash pan anyway) being tossed for a stove that is closer to 'self emptying' as it is used.

Brian

 

Interesting. At one point I had three different valves here at the same time and they all had near identical bends.

 

I'm still running the original flapper. I only hear the fluttering when I cold start the stove. I figure they did extensive testing with this valve and that is what they chose to use. That's why I plan to leave it the way it is. I've gone for weeks on end where I heard zero fluttering because I kept the stove running. Cold starting a stove everyday is no way to run a stove anyway.

 

Well, if they have identical bends, are the same length and the bi-metal strip is the same, then the valve will open later and be open less at any given temp. because the valve itself got thicker (the valve now being the metal plate and the fiber matt).

Again, we're just talking here and I am just throwing out this idea. I do not know what is happening with certainty, just throwing out an idea that struck me when I got my new valve in the mail (it struck me then that the new valve would behave differently than the original).

Brian

 

Another solution might be to install the original valve during the hard winter months when running 24/7 and swap to the new one during shoulder burning.

 

Congratulations on the IS. IMO - take the thing apart. Even with four guys "dead" lifting the stove, it can still press the discs (vertebral that is).
Advantages to taking the stove apart:
1) reduce the weight/save your back
2) you'll be keenly aware of every detail of your new best friend and have all the details you'll need from removing /replacing the parts in the event you need to address any adjustment issues (great to play with all the parts when they are clean)
3) you'll have the opportunity to lay-in a good dab of anti-seize compound at ALL the friction points on the control rod/carriage mechanism. Having done that, the bypass mechanism is easier and quieter than it was before I "greased" it. Very smooth and squeek-free operation (don't want to wake up the wife when I open the stove).
See my entry # 489 and #490 earlier in this thread regarding soapstone liner and dowels for moving.
Happy install!

 

If you take everything off of and out of (including the firebrick, soapstone and grate if you have one), four grown men (two young bucks and two old men (mid- 50's)) can literally pick the remaining shell up and walk it some distance and up a step or two without any mechanical aids. The soapstone / firebrick / grate is quite heavy all by itself but taking it out and reinstalling it takes a bit of fiddling around in addition to the charts you will have in the owner's manual about where each stone and brick goes. There is a required sequence and a bit of technique that is not in the manual that you will have to figure out but it probably saves 130 lb. at a guess in the stove's weight when moving it. Otherwise all the other parts are very straightforward to remove and reinstall, take virtually no tools and as Bruce said, it will give you a chance to get familiar with the stove and put a few dabs of anti- seize on all the pivot / sliding points of the sled.

I believe two men could easily move the empty shell and then all the components with a hand truck pretty easily too. A few stairs would probably be doable with nothing more than a handtruck and a few bad words.

Just shout out here if you have any problems and I am sure several people will be able to help. And of course a call to Woodstock is always a great experience in my experience. Congrats on the new stove- I think you will like it a lot as most of us (all of us?) seem to do.

Brian