Production Woodstock IS

BDF post link of item number when it happens

 

On one hand, if I were in the stove business I don't think I'd offer a full replacement warranty on a cat. Too many people do things to them that are far out of spec with wet wood, cardboard, colored newspaper, etc - and in many cases the cause of failure is likely impossible to prove conclusively. To give out a string of free cats to folks who just beat theirs to death would be a big drain financially, and it must be very hard except maybe in a case where it's been overfired to analyze the cat and say "Nope, your fault."

On the other hand, a pro-rated warranty would be much less costly, and upset off the customer a lot less. A gradual transition, system of grandfathering, or a more robust definition of "manufacturing defect" written by a good lawyer would have been a much better way to start down the road of removing the warranty altogether if that's the ultimate goal. Here's to hoping manufacturing moves in house sooner than later and drops the cost or allows for some form of warranty on replacement cats to be reinstated. The Goodyear comparison is apt.

One man's opinion of course, but I can honestly see both sides of it. I can also honestly say that I would have given other stoves a harder look if I knew this was coming when we purchased in August.

Thanks for sharing the info, BDF.

 

Yes, this was one of my prime concerns when purchasing a wood stove- the annual 'running' costs, which are not trivial. When the I.S. was introduced as a production stove, I was told a combustor would be $125. Then when I checked on the price about a year later, they were $175; still not a deal- breaker but kind of a surprising increase. Now they are still around that price but without a warranty, each 1 1/2 years a new one must be purchases, at least for my stove.

BTW- this was also a big part of not buying a larger catalytic stove such as a Blaze King King or a Regency 5100, the cost of those combustors is very high (around $350 if memory serves).

Another thing that would go a long way toward easing this situation would be in the cat. manufacturers would be a little more reasonable with their projected lifespans. At one point, Blaze King specifically stated that the expected lifespan of the combustors in their stoves was 10 years. And I believe it- just not 10 Earth years, more like 10 Mercury years. Lately, the cat. manufacturers are getting a lot more reasonable about expected cat. lifespan and in turn the warranty that used to be three years outright replacement and then three pro- rated years has been changed (by Condar and FireCat) to a full pro- rated warranty, starting at 50% the very first year. This will prevent a rash of free replacements going out to people who abuse them.

At this point, it would seem the best thing to do would be to make an adapter, put it in the I.S. and then use a 6" dia. X 2" thick Condar or FireCat combustor. With an initial price of around $150 or so and a 5 year pro- rated warranty, it will again bring the annual price of having a good- performing cat. down to less than $100 / year.

Brian

 

Just got off the phone with Woodstock and ordered parts for this upcoming winter. A new combustor and a new radiator. The combustor was under warranty because the stove is 5 yrs. old (the pro- rated portion of the warranty goes to six years from stove purchase) and so was 20% less than retail price. The new style radiator was $45. Overall, not too bad.

I did look at other combustor makes and found that while they do warranty their combustors, they are all pro- rated and start off at 50% of retail in the first year. That, coupled with the nearly doubled price ($300 +) game me the impetus to give one of the new Woodstock, made in- house, combustors a try. They do not come with any warranty but they are at least competitive, price- wise, with the other two manufacturers if not cheaper. As to quality and life- span, we will find out how they work. Clearly the combustor manufacturers have realized that their own stated life expectation of their products is..... 'hopeful' at best, or an outright fib at worst. Either way, the warranty programs of all the catalyst manufacturers that I know of have changed dramatically and not for the better from the consumer's point of view.

The second generation radiators are still warping and sagging under heat although the 'flaking' problem is no longer much, if any, of a problem. I plan on putting a small piece of steel on the front of the new radiator to support the front so it <hopefully> will eliminate the majority of the sag and extend its lifespan. It will always be a replacement part due to the extreme environment it is in but it should be able to go longer than 2 years IMO. Of course the warped radiators can be straightened, at least 'close enough' to straight, to be put back in useful condition but it would take a bigger press than I have; I did try 'talking to' the radiator with an 8 lb. sledge hammer and suggest it curve the other way but other than ringing loud enough to be heard for three counties and bouncing 5 ft. off the floor, it did not budge.

Also cleaned the stove completely inside and have it ready for the heating season. With a new combustor and very well seasoned wood, it should be a great wood- burning year. Looking forward to using the stove more than the A/C too- the stove is a lot quieter and better looking. What is it Mark Twain said about New England weather- if you do not like it, wait a minute.

Brian

 

I too have an updated radiator on the way to my place. I was thinking of trying something similar with a small piece of steel in the front of it to reduce the warping. If I come up with an idea I will post pictures of my idea...

A for a new cat, mine is going into the 4th season and it appears clean now that I've given it the vinegar distilled water bath. Time will tell, maybe I'll get a new cat for next season if the original last one more year.

 

If it is sagging toward the heat what would happen if the plate were reversible and it could be flipped over every 6 months or some sort of schedule ?

 

That would not work as the radiator is now- basically a 'U' shaped piece of steel. If one were modified such that the center was cut out and a larger piece of steel placed on top of the edges of the original, then that would work I think- not sure there is enough vertical room but the idea would certainly work on a modified radiator.

I am going to try just adding a steel 'strut' to the front as a crutch first. The combustor will still warp but that does not really matter as long as the center / front is held up high enough so it does not strike the thermometer / thermocouple.

Brian

 

Got my new cats and gasket kit. Didn't think about the radiator but will need to call them again. Looking pretty bad and have not had any luck trying to persuade it bend the other way. Got 2 cats, but think I will give my old one a final good soak and another shot before the new ones.

 

Any word on WS having an open house this fall?
As many have chimed in about replacement parts, I’ll need some as well. If they had the open house I’d probably take the ride up for the day

 

Fancistown NH I think if I remember correctly? The great grandfather of my Fireview.

 

Have not heard anything about it but we would take a ride up also if they have it and we can make it. A visit to Woodstock is always a pleasant time!

Brian

 

Brian,

I have a couple questions regarding the age of our stoves, the wear and tear the production year models has to this point and parts. Right now I'm in the middle of going through the IS to check for damage, making a list for replacement parts and cleaning it.

I just got off the phone with Ron at WS, he gave me some ideas of what to look for and what parts (generally)are getting ordered for the age of this stove. Generally he tells me it's just gaskets and some pieces of replacement soapstone. As I was on the phone with him and doing an inspection of the top end of the stove, I could see that the front end (closest to the door) of the sled had a bit of warping that I thought could be a fairly large air leak when the cat is engaged. He encouraged me to do the dollar bill test in the affected area to determine whether or not the seal was breached. The flashlight I was using was enough, no dollar bill needed!

Have you had any issues I'm describing with your sled, or heard of anyone reporting here of the same thing? I did pickup a piece of new gasket for the sled seal, I'm hopeful the newness of the gasket will hold the seal for now, but once it starts to seat itself and flatten out I'll be in the same boat again. Since I'm only going to be in this home for another 18-24 months I'm not going to throw any big bucks into the IS just yet. Should I sell and the new owners don't want the wood burning thing I'll gladly take it with me.

Theres also a small piece of thin metal that runs around the sled gasket too, that has also warped in a few sections and I wonder if that also has effected the sled seal too. I know my burn time were affected last winter, I'm guessing it was the warping sled and the flattened out gasket. Thanks in advance!

 

Pic of the front edge of the sled, u can see the warp just to the right.

 

Hey Scott, All is good. Glad to be back, just wish I had more time. I have heard that Woodstock is not having a gathering this year. I believe Dennis clued me in on that.

When I have a little more time I'm going to reach out to you in private to ask you about your Napoleon. My wife and I are moving to NH in a couple years and I'd like to continue doing the woodburning, however she is looking for certain things and of course I know what I need

 

So, this (facing the IS) right side withe sled removed. Not good

 

Hey Darrin, good to hear from you (though all the news is not great :-( ),

No, I do not think my sled has warped appreciably but to be honest, I also have not inspected it other than to look at it from the top. Funny you mention this right now though as I have a new cat. and new radiator waiting to be installed, the radiator also due to excessive warping (this is the second radiator in the stove since new- the replacement will be the third). When I have the stove open, I will take a much closer look at the sled and let you know if I find anything. I have not heard of anyone having any issues with the sled other than you in these last few posts. And there is little doubt that that is very much WAY too much warping and unacceptable to continue using, at least IMO. You might ask Woodstock about some type of consideration regarding a replacement simply because these stoves just are not that old.

The very thing that most attracted me to these stoves, the fact that the firebox is so well insulated and all heat is directed up and into the combustor may turn out to be a bit too hard on the parts in the top of the stove. As I said, this will be my third radiator, all warped (sagging actually) that they come to rest on the thermocouple and of course that is not acceptable. Beyond that, I have also had the shield of the top cover warp (the thin piece of sheet stock under the top / front cover of the stove) warp enough to show about a 1/16" gap between it and the top cover. It expanded and left a 'bubble' standing up into the center hole of the top place. I am still using that plate though I did turn it over so the bubble is facing down, replaced the gasket and it seems to be working OK and still sealing. My point is that perhaps the very nature of the stove's efficiency is what is causing these parts in the top of the stove to fail due to heat- exactly what they are built to do in channeling all that heat to the top. I am not blaming Woodstock here as I certainly did not see this coming either but perhaps it is just a bad idea to keep anything but a static piece of steel / iron at these elevated temperatures? Put another way, the top of an old- fashioned pot- bellied wood stove can reach extremely high temperatures and emit an amazing amount of heat but then again, there are no moving, fitted or complex parts there, just the dome of the stove which is free to expand.

As to any type of solution, I cannot think of any. Steel becomes soft at these extreme temperatures that wood stoves run at and precision, fitted parts are going to warp / sag and there is nothing I can think of to prevent or even significantly lessen that. The radiator is $45 as a replacement part so not that big of a deal every few years in normal maintenance. But the sled is a different story, and that assumes that all the damage is confined to the sled also- after that, replacing parts in the top of the stove is either going to be expensive or impossible (because they are part of the stoves' welded construction).

Will let you know what I find.

On the other thing, I too am eye-balling a move to a different state and recently have been researching Cow- Hampshire. Around the middle of the state or a bit north of that to get out of the Boston 'bedroom community' that has formed in the south.

Brian

 

Wow, that is a crazy amount of movement and warping... I just looked at my stove, and the only area I've had any sagging or warping is the first radiator... Keeping my eye on the cause, and response to your issue.

 

I'm about to sit down and write Lorin an e-mail with the 2 pics you guys got to see. As Brian said, the part of the stove that seems to have compromised the ability to seal the sled is a portion of the stove that is not a replaceable part but a welded part of the main stove. It's also weird to see the heat be so concentrated in that one area. Anyways, I'll fill you in when I hear something back from WS.