Production Woodstock IS

If the radiators had a small airspace between the stainless and the carbon steel I bet they might resist warping a little better.

 

Agreed, but I found it odd the Woodstock tried to play the warping off as being a problem only to a rare few people running the stove and blaming it on excessive draft and too dry of wood. I called BS on that.

 

Perhaps but I doubt it. What is causing the problem is simply temperature and a small gap of, say, 1/4" is not going to appreciably lower the temperature of the steel radiator simply because there is no appreciable way for that heat to radiate sideways and not go directly into the radiator itself.

I think a better long term solution would be to raise the top of the stove 6" and use that internal (Easy Boys!) volume to dissipate enough heat so the radiator does not run so hot in the first place. But that would require more materials, make the stove heavier and bigger (or at least taller) and probably reduce the stove's efficiency because I think a good deal of that dissipated heat would dissipate up the chimney rather than into the room where the stove is located.

The basis of the problem is that the radiator is very close to the combustor, which often runs at high temperatures of at least 1,000 degrees and often 1,300, 1,400 and higher temps. Steel just will not hold up at sustained temps that high. Stainless steel is much better but it too will suffer; the scaling (flaking) would be mostly taken care of but even S.S. is very soft at these temps. so sagging is almost certain to happen. Perhaps a solution would be to add a piece of steel on top of the radiator, across the front as a strongback but it would have to be fairly tall and thin to work and I do not think there is that kind of room above the radiator. Bear in mind that the radiator rises as it is moved so there is a lot less clearance above the radiator than it may seem when taking the top off of the stove and looking in.

But again, the radiator is pretty easy to bang back into shape (well, kind of shape but it is not important) and eventually it will be consumed and need replacing. Woodstock seems to be great about replacing them so it does not really seem to be a big problem for us users. And on the really bright side, the stove design makes it fantastically easy to both get to and remove both the radiator as well as the combustor; and seeing as the combustor should be cleaned at least once a season, it is not much of a big deal to take the radiator out and give it a few touches with a small hand- sledge. Hey, maybe that was Woodstock's master plan all along to reduce the amount of road rage out there- by allowing all of us to take a bit of it out on our woodstove radiators?



Brian

 

I am probably one of those excessive draft guy measured at 50 to 60 pascal.. I do not know what it means but it was on very high side of chart!

 

Yeah, I think it is tough for anyone, individual or corporation, to frankly admit something.... anything is 100% our fault. We may take the blame but love a good mitigating circumstance. But in the end, they seem to be fine with replacing them without any difficulty or resistance which is the main thing, or at least I think it is. Now that I think about it, I cannot remember anyone saying they were refused any part(s) or service on any Woodstock product.... Has anyone been refused?

I probably sound like a fanboi but hey, I kinda' am a fan of both Woodstock and the Ideal Steel. The stove is not perfect IMO but it is as good or better than anything else I could find on the market when I bought it in 2014. And so far, the company has not only stood behind the product 101% but they have been friendly and extremely helpful when I have had any contact with them- even when asking about a problem. This is not to say that there are not other wood stove companys out there just as good, just that in my very limited experience (this is my very first 'store bought' wood stove in 50 years of burning wood), they have been great and not made me regret my decision or having spent the money on their product.

BTW- I looked the other day and my radiator has sagged enough that it is hitting my temp. probe (Easy!) when closing the bypass. I will have to take it out and give it a few swipes in the next few days, at least the temps. are unusually warm for this time of year.

Brian

 

Anyone running a damper on their IS? If so how much farther (notches) open are you running the damper?

Obviously chimney height and draft play into it. Mine is 20 ft of class A outside chased in, double wall dvl 3 ft up from stove and 2 45s to the thimble. I'm running mine fully closed and a notch or 2 above 1/4. In my mind I would think the damper is slowing the heat from shooting up the chimney and letting it transfer to the stove better? Seeing temps of 630-650 on the front nex to the cat probe at peak and stove top temps in the low 500 range next to the flue exit.

 

I close my damper when the wind is blowing hard. If it is calm, closing the damper in the pipe is roughly equal to one notch on the control damper on my setup (25' internal flue).

 

I was fine with the scaling of the radiator until it got so thin that it barely did anything. Everytime you hammer on that thing to straighten it you weaken the metal even more. This causes even more scaling. The stainless steel shield helps, but my new one still scales metal. Atleast it keeps it off the cat.

I think I will take the old radiator to a local machine shop someday and see if they have any better ideas.

 

A mod. that should virtually eliminate the problem would be to cut a section out of an existing radiator and weld in a piece of 303 or 304 stainless steel as thick as the original radiator. That will virtually eliminate the scaling and help (but not eliminate) the warping and sagging.

As to the sagging / warping of the radiator, the only thing I can think of would be to weld a 'strong back' across it; I would again use a piece of 303 or 304 S.S., 1/4 or 3/8" thick and at least 1" wide across the entire radiator. It would be best installed on top of the radiator but I do not think there is enough clearance between the radiator and the stove top. It could go under the radiator but could not project so far it hits the combustor, and it will be less effective under the rad. as it will get even hotter than the radiator does.

The ultimate solution would be a piece of ceramic in place of the center of the radiator but I doubt anyone would want to buy a piece of silicon nitride that large, I doubt it is available in plate form that large and beyond that, it would take some modification to the radiator to hold the ceramic in the first place- probably making a pair of slots on each side to slide the ceramic in place. You <could> try something like a floor tile, and it will withstand the heat but it will probably crack before long.

Woodstock has a very interesting Ideal Steel mod. that uses a piece of glass instead of steel for the top of the stove over the combustor. I believe they remove the radiator entirely on that stove so it would eliminate the problem, plus it would let a LOT of heat out of stove in the form of IR radiation. Unfortunately they do not plan on pursuing that design because they found the glass got dirty.

Brian

 

Yeah I just checked today and mine is making contact too. I've actually had it off lately with temps in the 50's and even 60's lately. Will be back on before the end of the week. If I haven't got the replacement yet I think I'll just pull the probe out for now.

Curious, what kind of hammer does it take to actually pound that thick of metal flat, and I assume you need an anvil or sorts? Do you heat it up red hot first or just pound it cold? I haven't tried that yet but I don't think I have anything heavy duty enough to hammer that radiator back.

Yeah several of us do. I can't really tell a difference though without something more precise to monitor the temps. Maybe 1 notch but I haven't noticed even that.

During the colder part of winter when draft is a bit stronger I can have the damper shut straight and still have flames and secondaries going on the 3rd notch if its packed full with good seasoned ash. Just depends on the individual burn really, sometimes I have a dark flameless firebox a notch higher than other burns with strong secondaries. Might be differences in the wind which I don't often pay attention too. Today it's a little windy but I have the stove off. It has a strong enough pull I can hear it whistling still through the stove, damper shut and air control shut.

 

I just used a 3 pound sledge on a concrete floor (garage) when it was warm 120 ish degrees I didn't make it perfect just straighten it out a bit just my style of make it work

 

Has anyone put an opposite warp in it? I would think that would give it more time. I may need to straighten mine by the end of the season. Should look at it sometime.

 

Now that Ive been running this thing a few days its really kickin some butt after I got the cement floor in the basement warm. Granted temps have been in the low to mid 30s for highs and lows, its keep my approx 3000 sq ft at 72-73 degrees at the moment. 2 loads a day about 12 hrs apart give or take.

I'm seeing 650-700 above the door next to the cat probe, and 450-500 sometimes 530ish on the top next to the flue. Cat is definitely over active with only 3-4 days on it. It is running at 1400-1500 at its peak. These temps are with the flue damper right on top of the flue collar closed all the way and fresh air damper set at the 1/4 mark. Sometimes 1 under sometimes 1 over 1/4 as well.

Are these temps pretty typical? Or am I running it a little too hot? I see what I think is just steam out the cap (white trail maybe 10-12 ft out at most). Couldn't possibly be smoke with the cat at 1200-1500 degrees could it?

 

I would need an anvil or something to put reverse on it... mine did have a wave thing going.. still got it as a spare.. just in case

 

I was thinking you would see an improvement in heating once all that cement warmed up. Same as with my situation.
Those temps are identical with how I normally burn, which I consider pretty hot, but not wide open. Very typical.

Probably steam. If it completely disappears after 12 feet, it's not smoke but steam. Smoke lingers and doesn't completely go away.

 

I think my cat is fried. It works, but there is hardly any low end oomph to it anymore. It takes higher temperatures to get it cruising and it just has a very slow response. It does get up to temperature and cruises. However, it's just not what it was. I did the vinegar bath with very little improvement. I've noticed that the temperature in my house is lower which tells me that I'm not getting good heat output during the day. I even tried some of my better wood to see if it helps but I'm not seeing much difference.
I'm debating on making the call....

 

We get temps same as you show, measured in the same places. Have no flue damper here. I get white smoke (or maybe it's water vapor - I'm still undecided on that) from the chimney for the first 30-45 minutes of a burn. Ours is in the basement too and takes a long time to warm the whole house after I let all go cold a few days. Once that cold thermal mass of surrounding masonry and cement floor are warm though, boy it really puts heat into the living space. Burning 24 X 7 is the way to go but in shoulder season you can't burn it continuously - ya end up too hot indoors. I love that super response of a brand spankin' new cat but it does mellow out before long.

 

$155 pro rated for a new cat including shipping since I'm on my 3rd year. Ouch. They admitted that the cats do lose their reactivity after a few years. Here's the kicker. They are out of inventory.

 

How much are they asking for the cat. by itself? Last year, they were only $175 new, and when the stove was introduced, they said the cat. would be $125. Has Woodstock raised the price of a new cat.?

As I have said before, the cost of the cat. was a significant factor in my buying an I.S. stove in the first place; the two other stoves I was looking at, a B.K.K. and a Regency 5100, had significantly more expensive cat.s.

Brian

 

thinking same thing as mine is slowly dying!