In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Now That Heating Oil is $6.00/gal in New England, How Many People Are Changing Over to Wood Pellets?

Discussion in 'Pellet Stoves, Pellet Fireplaces, Pellet Furnaces' started by Orson_Yancey, Apr 29, 2022.

  1. Warner

    Warner

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,503
    Likes Received:
    41,179
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    billb3 likes this.
  2. Orson_Yancey

    Orson_Yancey

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    559
    Location:
    Portsmouth, NH
    Hi Scot,
    Just curious, are you running the pellet factory at 100% capacity all summer?
    I think late summer, when people start to fill-up their tanks for winter, people are going to be
    shocked by the price of petroleum products, and will make a run on wood pellets.
    I think this Fall, we will see pellets sales as strong as back in Fall 2014.
     
  3. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,996
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    Scot...Curious as to what you are using for feed stock?
     
    Orson_Yancey likes this.
  4. Scot Linkletter

    Scot Linkletter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    2,035
    Location:
    Athens, ME
    Yes. We are making as much as we can. Some of our store customers even had the foresight to pre-purchase for fall to ensure their stores will have product.

    If you mean for my DHW at home (from the previous page), I use Maine Woods Pellets in my Harman PB105 to heat my water all year.
    If you mean for the pellet mill, I use hardwood and softwood chips and sawdust.

    This is the hardwood pile:
    IMG_8001.jpg

    This is the softwood pile:
    IMG_7999.jpg

    Those are the overflow piles. Behind the hardwood pile there's a 1 acre storage building. The infeed hoppers are also in there. Softwood is on the left and hardwood is on the right:
    IMG_7997.jpg

    I saw a few generator pictures on the last page. Here's another to add to the list:
    IMG_7994.jpg
     
    ChandlerR, Ohio, imacman and 6 others like this.
  5. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,996
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    What I was referring to, your extruding business. It appears to me that most pellet extruders and regional which is good, considering the cost of transportation today.

    Myself, I roast Michigan Hardwood pellets, extruded in Holland Michigan though there are 2 other extruders fairly close by, One on White Pigeon, Michigan and the other in Somerset, Kentucky which is Somerset Hardwood Flooring, Somerset uses their forestry slash and off grade (not suitable for the flooring mill) to extrude pellets so it's a value added product for them.

    A couple years back I inquired about purchasing a full truckload of Somerset Pellets (I have the indoor storage room for at least 100 skids of pellets, maybe more) and I also have the equipment to unload them including a back in dock for vans or side loaded flat bed trailers (ho-lo), but factoring in the transportation costs even back then when diesel was actually at a sane price, it was a wash just buying them local in quantity, which I have done and will continue to do.

    I own a small extruder (from Bustek Engineering in Indiana) and I've played around with pelletizing various materials, mostly dry orchard grass and some wheat straw, with mixed results. I'm in the commercial forage business so I always have that sort of feedstock available. From my experience here, wood pellets (either hardwood or softwood) runs much better, produces a lot less ash and are just all around easier to deal with so the extruder stays in the barn as a just in case 'backup' and I purchase my pellets locally. One thing I do is I mix dry off grade seed corn which is under 10% RM with the pellets and burn that. The corn burns much hotter than straight pellets but you have to have a unit that is multifuel capable and most of them sold today are not, most are only capable of burning processed wood pellets. I get the corn for zip and have for years. Mu buddy down the road owns and operates a huge seed operation and I get all the off grade (no germ) he has, usually already bagged or in supersacks. Commercial seed corn has to 'germ' at 95% or better or it cannot be sold commercially. I get the -95% stuff, don't care what the germ rate is, I roast it and it's very dry as you cannot store seed corn above 10% RM and most of it is usually in the 9-7% RM area.

    My 2 are true biomass units and will combust any biomass fuel so long as it's pelletized. Both computer controlled and both can be 'adjusted' via changing the algorithms to efficiently roast anything.

    The only drawback with a corn pellet mix is the amount of ash produced. Corn makes an excessive amount of ash so the units have to be cleaned at least twice weekly and the ash pans dumped at least every 7 days.

    I was curious about where you sourced your feedstock at and how much you had on hand more than anything else.

    Nice plant btw, I'd hate to pay your utility bills...:picard:
     
    Orson_Yancey likes this.
  6. Scot Linkletter

    Scot Linkletter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    2,035
    Location:
    Athens, ME
    I buy sawdust and chips from nearly every mill in Maine and parts of Canada. I make up the rest with our own harvesting operations.
    Biomass for the power plant is sourced in the same way but is a lower quality material - contains bark and limbs.

    For how much on hand, I typically have around 4000 tons of raw material in the yard for pellet stock and 2500 tons of biomass for the power plant.
    About a 1 week supply for the pellet plant and 1-1/2 for the power plant.
    There are different bays in the two 1-acre buildings we use to rotate the supply.
    I also keep a much larger backup supply in roundwood stored just up the road.
     
    fuelrod, Ohio, PelletHound and 5 others like this.
  7. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,996
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    I also keep a much larger backup supply in roundwood stored just up the road. So, do you reduce the 'roundwood' via a tub grinder to useable size or sell it as chunk wood?

    Interesting operation. If I ever get up that way, I'd like to see it. I love mechanical stuff (as you can tell).
     
    bogieb and Canadian border VT like this.
  8. Scot Linkletter

    Scot Linkletter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    2,035
    Location:
    Athens, ME
    The roundwood is hardwood and softwood pulp. We use chippers to reduce its size. The only materials we store at the pellet mill and power plant are chips and sawdust.

    The most interesting "mechanical stuff" to me is the ORC power plant. The ORC part was designed by Turboden - ORC biomass plant in USA for Athens Energy
    and you can see their process here: ORC System
     
    wildwest, bogieb, PelletHound and 2 others like this.
  9. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,996
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    Prior to retirement, I was the alternate operator for the company I retired from, Hurst Scotchback boiler that burned biomass (wood chips) and had an NG backup on it. They used it tp provide steam to heat their pickle line (steel processor) and provide heat for the offices. Had my high pressure operators license back then not that it was really necessary as the entire plant was 100% computer controlled. It was equipped with an electrostatic precipitator so the stack emissions were mostly just the smell of wood being combusted. We got most of the feedstock from local tree companies which were tickled to have a place to dump chips rather than paying for tipping at the local landfills. We ran whole trees too, had a large tub grinder to reduce the logs to chips. The infeed system included a set of electromagnets to remove any tramp metal and a clarifier tp pull out any large chunks (and other stuff) that would jam the feed augers. The one ongoing issue we experienced was, when accepting chips from various tree companies, one never knew what was hidden in the loads. We got all sorts of tramp stuff like rakes, shovels, road signs and even an occasional chain saw in the chip loads. Being an underfire boiler, it was fed by twin augers that the computer controlled to set the firing rate for the amount of steam being used to heat the heat exchangers in the pickle and rinse tanks and to regulate the steam used to heat the offices. The big undesirable task was raking out the ashes and dumping them with a dump hopper in a roll off box outside that eventually went to the landfill. The unit was located in an uninsulated steel storage building (quite large) and the residual heat from the boiler and associated piping kept the warehouse warm and dry in the winter and in the summer, turned into a sauna, even with the overhead doors open. Nice job in the winter, not so nice in the summer. Not even sure if it is still operating as I've been retired for 15 years now and I don't get by there very often.
     
  10. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,996
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    I know that Harman's are the popular biomass stoves on here but, for me they don't work because I heat with field corn and pellets and Harman's due to their feed and burn design aren't really true biomass units, really inly suited to run pellets. Mine will combust anything including wood pellets and any other biomass that is pelletized plus grains like corn and soybeans though I rarely use soybeans because they are an oilseed and you have to be extremely cautious when burning them.

    Because of where I live, field corn is abundant and relatively inexpensive so I require a true multifuel stove and I have 2,
     
  11. ChandlerR

    ChandlerR

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    470
    Likes Received:
    2,865
    Location:
    Seacoast NH
    Not a bad idea. Over the summer I could probably fill the tank. Heating oil on a payment plan .
     
    imacman likes this.
  12. ChandlerR

    ChandlerR

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    470
    Likes Received:
    2,865
    Location:
    Seacoast NH
    I have a 2002 Damon Challenger 348. 36 foot F53 Ford V10. I bought it in '02. Paid cash with the money I made selling my 36 foot boat. I'm a nut on maintenance and the fact that this is the only RV I will ever own. It has gel coated side walls so it is similar to my boats. I wheel it out every year and polish it then a coat of wax. Still flawless on the outside. Interior is 80 out of 100 and the rig has been trouble free since new. I wish I had a barn to put it in but for a 20 year old rig it still looks almost new. Just got back from a week in Vermont. Towed my Element and still averaged 7 mpg. We use it almost monthly and we stay within a few hundred miles of home and stay for a least a week.
    My 36 foot Carver Mariner with 2 big block Chevys burned 30 gallons an hour at a slow cruise and 60 gallons an hour at full throttle. Last trip we took with it was our annual trip to the Boothbay Harbor area of Maine. I burned $1800 of fuel in 2 weeks at $2 a gallon. The first trip with the motorhome we went to Camden Maine (next to Boothbay) and burned $80 worth of gas. To me, even at $5 a gallon, a motorhome is an economical way to vacation compared to a boat. :)
     
    fuelrod, corncob, imacman and 2 others like this.
  13. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,996
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan
    Sold my last boat years ago (we live near the water, Lake Erie to be exact, so water is all around us). I do have a canoe however. Grumman 17 foot, square stern and an small outboard motor to propel it. For fishing. Might consume a gallon all day.
     
    bogieb and Orson_Yancey like this.
  14. Sirchopsalot

    Sirchopsalot

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2020
    Messages:
    2,970
    Likes Received:
    17,991
    Location:
    medium city in CT
    We did that for a couple years in skinny times.

    Then, one time they sold our oil to another customer and charged our account.
    From then on out, once we got to 1/4 tank, I siphoned it dry, into 55G drums. That gave us a little extra on reserve, and made sure we got the 200G discount. At one point we had a full tank, and 110 to 130G on hand.

    (Then we said xxxx big oil, put in a new gasser, and then a wood stove). Zero love lost.

    Sca
     
    MikeInMa, imacman, scajjr2 and 4 others like this.
  15. billb3

    billb3

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,799
    Likes Received:
    50,301
    Location:
    SE Mass
    If it is local price difference the off road diesel might be two months old and bought when prices were lower ??? ( and they're not charging today's prices, yet)
    A couple weeks ago HHO went up $1/gal in 6 days. And it has been going up and down quite a bit.
    Used to be Ag diesel and HHO were enough cheaper ( no road tax) that there are big fines for finding red dye in an over the road fuel tank.
    Today, here, Diesel is $6.29 a gallon at Cumberlands and my HHO supplier is $4.98 (HHO was 6 bucks not too many days ago)
    Pretty sure every place is ULSD (15ppm) now. At one time HHO was allowed to be higher sulfur content than over the road diesel but I'm pretty sure those days are gone everywhere now.
     
  16. wildwest

    wildwest Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2014
    Messages:
    28,159
    Likes Received:
    128,138
    Location:
    Wyoming high plains
    Do you have any insight on Rocky Mountain Pellets? They seem to be made of much coarser chips than others we buy.
     
    imacman likes this.
  17. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,820
    Likes Received:
    108,917
    Location:
    Vermont
    I try hunk your right as ULSD is all that’s listed in future contracts Along with Jet fuel gasoline grades etc
     
    billb3, imacman and bogieb like this.
  18. Scot Linkletter

    Scot Linkletter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    2,035
    Location:
    Athens, ME
    No, Wildwest. I don't know anything about anyone else's sources. You could try asking them. But unless they also sell bulk to commercial users, they may not have performed particle size distribution tests.
    I don't know of any particle size requirements for home use.
     
    bogieb, wildwest and imacman like this.
  19. corncob

    corncob

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,347
    Likes Received:
    3,996
    Location:
    Somewhere in Lower Michigan

    In as much as I don't use oil for heat, why not buy ORD and burn that? It is the same thing right
     
    bogieb likes this.
  20. billb3

    billb3

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    9,799
    Likes Received:
    50,301
    Location:
    SE Mass
    $$$$

    That is a common solution when/if one runs out and you know how to bleed the line.
     
    imacman, bogieb and theburtman like this.