New Wood Racks

All correct but there is one thing that I have seen and has caused some confusion. Some manufacturers specs less that the normal 18" CTC from single wall pipe. As long as you are using non up listed single wall pipe you can go by the stove spec but as soon as that pipe is listed and specs 18" which a few do you then need to go with the pipe specs.

Personally I will never go below 18" with single wall just for my comfort but sometimes you technically can

 

Firstly, I was sitting on my atv in the woods.
I didn’t take into account these idjuts would use side clearance when the determining factor is really pipe clearance. Just not the way I would have wrote it. 12” is side clearance for the stove with shields. The larger 16” is only valid because of required pipe clearance I assume. Stoves dont get hotter just because they have insulated pipes.
Personally if I was charged with creating this print I would give the real dimensions required for both stove and pipes.

 

Have to assume they allow vertical closer to the wall than the top 18”. As a mason I’ve never installed a stove with unprotected walls so it’s out of my wheelhouse. I agree, keep it 18”. Sleep is a good thing.

 

You aren't assuming masonry directly on combustibles is a protected wall are you?

 

Depends on your definition of directly. Brick we gave a 1” airspace. Stone 6” thick wall with plenty of voids behind. Old school masonry. Nowadays everything is fake and glued on the wall solid.
Even old school there are clearances. Back in the day manufacturers usually gave those too.

Question, why would they allow a single wall pipe 13” off the wall on an angle install but give a measurement of 26.5 on a straight install? Now that makes no sense for the stove to be 16” off the wall if the pipe can be 13”. Pipes are round. They don’t care if the stove is angled. So that stove should be able to be installed 12” off the wall with either pipe.

 

I think it has to do with the half dimension heat shields.

 

Both measurements are with side shields. 16” and 12”. There’s no possible way the pipe can have any effect. So how is it possible uninsulated pipes make the sides hotter? I don’t get it.

 

Have you seen the side shields ?

 

That's not what Englander claims...not on this model, but I've seen it on others...NC13, maybe the NC30 too?

 

No, but I fail to see the relevance. Both numbers are for side shields installed. Ones 12 and ones 16. Yet they allow the pipe within 13. So how is it possible one set of numbers allows shielded stove within 12 and the same exact stove 16?

See where I’m going with this? It can’t be the pipe that creates the difference. So why two sets of numbers for a stove with shielded sides?

 

I would certainly like to hear that theory. A stove body that runs hotter because of insulated pipe? I’m not buying it.
Sure there’s a benefit to insulated pipe but pushing out any measurable extra heat from the body of a stove? I doubt it.

 

You need to see the side shields.

They are side shields in the same sense that shorts are pants.

 

Here is the NC13...this is what i was talking about...the Englander rep was questioned about this (another site) and he said this is not a misprint.

 

He said in their testing the DW pipe made the stove draft higher/run hotter.
If I can find the thread I will link it here...that particular Englander rep is a member here, but hasn't come around for quite some time now...

 

Well that would be an interesting. Ya know,,,,maybe,,maybe in a secondary stove. Those pipes stay pretty hot right?
I’m thinking more along the lines of my PH. When that thing is cranking the pipes drop to 200 + or - anyway.
When the day comes to replace my liner I will spring for the insulated. I’ve been using an uninsulated liner inside an
18”x18” flue for five years now with no draft complaints. Granted it should be insulated in that large an opening.

 

Do either of those wall covering techniques have space top and bottom to allow for ventilation? If not how much reduction are they giving?

 

The size of the opening has little to do with insulation requirements. What really matters is clearance from the outside of that masonry structure to combustible materials.

 

Insulated liners that go inside masonry chimneys do not need extra insulation for combustible purposes. It’s merely to retain the heat inside the liner to create less creosote. And possibly better draft. The masonry chimney already has all the fire prevention required. The liner adds another layer of protection.