Motorsport motors these days

I haven't had the joy of dealing with those tiny weedwacker 4 strokes. Just seeing what plastic gears and such in mower engines would tell me that those little wacker engines are made even more cheaply.

 

Yes, it is. They've gotten better with efficiency, but spinning a 60 lb track and using cvt double clutches sucks up power. There's also a chain case, a jackshaft, and then a driveshaft with drivers that spin the track. Hyfax, skid wheels and a belt drive all take away power.

In the late 90's, it was said that a 100hp sled would lose 40 hp to drivetrain losses. There's been a lot more efficiency put into newer sleds, but most of those power suckers are still in play on new sleds.

A motorcycle typically loses about 10-20% in drive line losses at the rear wheel.

 

And then on top of all that, unless you are on ice, or hard pack, you are "pushing" snow!

 

My favorite 2 stroke was my 1985 honda CR 500 dirt bike. Not sure what the actual peak HP was, but all of the old big bore 2 stroke dirt bikes would get some adrenaline flowing . I don't have much seat time on sleds, but have spent a couple days on an older RMK 800 polaris that belongs to a friend. And yes as said above you can get yourself in trouble in a big hurry on sleds.

 

Big bore MX bikes too!
I've always said there isn't a man alive that can ride a 500 MX bike for all its worth (not like they do on 125's)

 

Those 500cc 2 strokes of ANY brand or strike of bike were crazy.

The cr500 was 60 hp. A kx500 Kawasaki dirt bike was 65 hp. I've never riden either of those. But I owned a Honda xl600s which was a street legal xr600r. That was a fun bike. I also rude a bunch of 250 cc liquid motocross bikes in the late 80's to mid 90's. Those 250's were about 50 hp stock.

I also owned a Kawasaki h1 500cc 2stroke triple in a street bike. That was a difficult bike to ride as it was very peaky( and handled like crap). I hear stories of 4 cylinder 500cc 2 stroke MotoGP bikes on how insane those were.

 

My uncle had a 501 maico when I was just still a little kid in the early 70s. That thing was flat out mean sounding. His neighbors hated him, as he also had a 450 Husqvarna, and a couple of Bultaco pursangs

 

A built up 250cc 2 stroke mx bike could easily beat the top hp of said 85 cr500.

Now a liquid cooled exhaust valved 2 stroke....

 

Didn't Kawasaki make a 750cc triple two stroke street bike also?

 

Yep. The h2.

Even dumber. Same wet noodle chassis and even more power.

Those bikes sure sounded great with aftermarket tuned triple pipes

 

Yeah, but they are more controllable...a 500 is about like sitting on a rocket...and twisting the throttle is like lighting the fuse

 

When I was at the bike shop one of the other mechanics raced a totally built H2 in a full on drag chassis, drag slick and all...and yes, no other sound like it...

 

A triple piped triple cylinder 2stroke snowmobile, especially with non combined exhaust /muffler ( stingers they are typically called) is about the same sound. Most of those sleds are liquid cooled, so there's less resonance sounds compared to the air cooled kawi.

 

When we met in the late 70's she was riding a 2 stroke Yamaha 300 that smoked and sounded cool.
She didn't smoke but was cool.
I had my Triumph T bike with Lucas ( prince of darkness).
The 2 stroke Yamaha 4HP outboard from the 70's still runs fine.
Change %$#&@.

 

I think you two are right about this. My two friends had a 250 and a 360 and I had the 125. I kept up with them on Enduro trail practice rides and they were flabbergasted that I could, really complimented my riding. Thing is, I was riding all out to do it!

 

200 horse, less than 200 pounds... yeah, where do I sign!
1993 Cagiva V593 | R433.1 | Las Vegas 2021 | Mecum Auctions

 

Yeah, that's an easy to figure out power to weight ratio. No rider aids except big cajones and a calibrated wrist.

 

Glad I stopped in. I have some great news regarding 2 strokes that I don't believe has been mentioned here.

I still avidly ride dirtbikes. In fact, I'd say the hobby is picking up speed more than ever. There are those that do motocross, but Extreme Enduro woods riding is really gaining momentum. I rode an Enduro race this past summer in Bergholz, Ohio and it was the biggest rider turnout they have ever seen.

What is the number one selling bike for this application? KTM 2 strokes. Primarily the 300 2 stroke. I live a mile away from a KTM dealer and they sell so many of these, they're usually all sold before the truck even arrives with them. I'm friends with the owner, he told me they've sold 12 in one day. Thats alot for a small town dirtbike dealer!

KTM is dominating the Off-Road market because they redevelop their machines every year. On the contrary, Honda, Yamaha, and other Japanese manufacturers make a design and run with it for years (sometimes upwards of 20 years) with only minor and cosmetic changes. KTM improves their motors, frames, suspensions, and overall design each year and it is evident.

Their 2 stroke design is supreme. In the past few years they finally released fuel injected 2 strokes which are emission friendly (even in Europe) and believe it or not - they are the cats meow! Wonderful machines.

I personally ride a 300xc-w carberated model and it is a dream machine. Never fouled a plug in 4 years and I can lug it lower than a 4 stroke bike without stalling. Additionally, these new units can go hundreds of hours (properly maintained) on a set of rings. Yes I said hundreds of hours!

Along with that, the KTM offroad 2 stroke line is winning most, if not all of the Non-Motocross races throughout the world. 6 days, Ezinburg, Tennessee Knockout, and more. This has been a big boost to their sales.

All in all, I've always liked Japanese engineering especially on their dirtbikes. Unfortunately they are not keeping with the times on their 2T products and have fallen way behind or dropped their 2T all together. KTM is keeping 2 stroke technology alive and well and their does not seem to be an end in sight!

Did I mention they even have street legal 2 strokes??

Thanks all!

Here's my 2017 KTM 300XC-W along with a friends Honda 250R chassis with a Quadzilla 500 motor shoehorned in.

 

I have both 2 and 4 stroke snow machines. The Tundra 600cc 4 stroke 60hp 16x154x1.5 track and a Summit 600cc 2 stroke 114hp 16x155x2.6 as you climb north of 4,000 on the way to 10,000. The Tundra really starts to work the rider as the hp starts to wain, man handling the machine becomes more prevalent. As the machine does respond as well being down on hp. As the snow gets deeper, bigger hp really starts to shine, and stays on plane was easier. Comparing my 2 Summits the 800cc @ 150 hp vs the 600cc, the 800 is easier to ride, however since I locked the 800 motor the other day the 600 is way easier to ride faster. I think the utility machines the 4 strokes are the way to go, and for fun the 2 stokes are fun.