John Deere holds farmers hostage to their service centres

Not sure....the year...probably a mid 2000's. He didn't sign an agreement that I know of...but he may as well have because they charged time and mileage both ways (75 miles each way) just to get here and back.

 

Deer is stopping you from repairing it. You get a light problem and can't plug in to see what the problem is. I guess you could throw parts at it...but that's not a good idea.

What gets me is there are a lot of really, really, good (and cheap) diesel and heavy equipment mechanics who don't work for Deere...but can't touch the equipment because of access to software. You're locked into an expensive repair.

 

Apparently your not. No one is asking for anything free. We want to be able to purchase what we need to be able to repair. I'm the only one who mentioned "free" so long as they dont.

I have a JD 7320 that like the guy in OldJack's article wouldn't stop beeping because of something stupid. The Deere tech couldn't even fix it. I fixed it though.

 

Understable, no one forced them to buy the machine. No one forced me to buy a car I can't tune or diagnose myself......Yet....... They knew what they were doing when they bought it.
They"mechanic" also haven't been trained which costs money to do, to operate the software.
They could use the aftermarket or "black market" software to make the repairs?

I personally won't buy or work on a vehicle that my " black market" software or HPTUNER won't control scan or tune.
I can personally attest that a good wrench or mechanic is much different than a good tuner or software operator. Usually a mechanic is brain dead when it comes to tuning. It is a true special skill set. That requires constant use and training.

I get it but don't agree, it's on the basis and principal of forcing someone to do something for you or someone else I don't agree to.
I could use alot of examples of situations that require a service that people themselves don't have "access" to. But with a little though most people can easily come up with these scanrios if they think about it.
It's basic grade school economics.

 

Ultimately the core issue is Deere saying that you don't own what you paid for.

 

They aren't saying that at all. Throw gas on it and burn it to the ground. JD won't care.

What they are saying is we(JD) are the only ones that can service it until the free market responds or the "black market".
The Chinese will probably copy their scanner software and offer it at $100
What happened with the Auto industry is they tried the same, but companies built their own software/scanners to sell at a fraction of the cost. So Auto manufactures started to sell and lower their prices on the same/ish tool.

 

So in the process of having a perfectly fine discussion, you feel the need to rag on mechanics..."nice"
1st sentence, OK, I can agree to some degree, but, one of the best wrenches I know is also a very good tuner.
3rd sentence, yeah, I'll give ya that one too, at least if we are talking about a top notch tuner.
4th sentence, yup, as does a good wrench.
2cnd sentence, completely unnecessary.
I get it, mechanics "are just grease monkeys", but you're a tuner, so you are special.

I disagree. Very few people have any idea that when they buy a particular car/tractor/whatever, if it can be repaired by Jims Repair Shop, or if it has to go back to the dealer only for some stuff. Maybe they should know, but the vast majority don't have a clue.

 

No.This is what they said:

A vehicle owner does not acquire copyrights for software in the vehicle, and cannot
properly be considered an “owner” of the vehicle software.

No. Laws have had to be passed to force the auto industry to play nice with the consumer. They have until 2018 to do so.

 

The fine line here is Not that you don't own the hard equipment ( because that will never fly) but that you do not own the software installed in the computer control module. GM went to court on this awhile back, I haven't heard anything outcome wise so I guess it is still in the courts. Course can't use the equipment if ya can't fix it- so as far as I am concerned they are cutting their own throats. The deal with this is forced obsolescence- can't get a dealer only part because they no longer make it ( ford, module under dash 2002 7.2 oil burner)- in this particular case the module failed due to a poor design of the mating surfaces of the windshield to cowl - a known issue that ford will not address, another is fuel pump driver modules ( again ford- not picking on them but I do not have a lot of time in on other makes) Variable timing systems in all makes, Evap system failures, just to name a couple other problem areas across the board. I can't repeat what my IT Eng. son had to say when I slowly explained to him why his car, 2014 gm, wouldn't run a few weeks ago.
beat me to it.

 

Not ragging on them. It's something they don't do. If you pick 10 of the closest repair shops none of them can do anything outside of general maintenance. So most wrenches are essentially brain dead when it comes to tuning.
It's not common practice for mechanics to use aftermarket software.
I'm not a "tuner" I'm a hobbiest. There are hpt/efi guys that are godlike with knowledge though.
I'm also a hobbiest wrench.
But thanks for seeing me as special!

What laws..... Citation? Links??
they do not own the copyright! They can't copy the software and use it. They can build their own non copyright software and use it on the machine.
It's like how windows owns the copyright to.....Windows...Lol you can't legally copy it and agree to a licence agreement!

 

Motor Vehicle Owners' Right to Repair Act - Wikipedia

 

FWIW, Volkswagen, Audi Group software is pretty cheap, thanks to the aftermarket. You can buy VAG software for very little. It pays for itself the first time you NEED it, not just to make your TDI spew even more emissions..

 

My buddy owns two, a 7230 and a 7239R. The r as been nothing but trouble after the first 200 hrs. My youngest drove it before he did.

 

Awesome!

 

They are not saying until the free market responds, they are saying never. You may never create or use a third party scanner on John deer equipment.

And the auto industry was trying this and failed. If they had succeeded EFI live and scan tools would be illegal.

 

There are lots of protectionist roadblocks out there. Think the AMA and the medical profession, the bar and the legal profession, etc. Each ostensibly for the protection of us, but mostly for the protection of their livelihoods. That is what John Deere is doing as well.

In the case of the doctors and lawyers (pharmacists, dentists, etc), people put up with it for some reason, perhaps because of fear. If you don't want to play the game, don't. Find your own solutions to your needs. Work-arounds are moral and useful in each of these cases.

The John Deere stranglehold will not hold, and it will not be because of lawmakers, though they will take credit. It will change because they cannot win that game in the market.

 

I like the attempted analogy, but anyone is allowed to try to represent themselves in a court of law if they are not deemed incapable of understanding the ramifications, and anyone is legally allowed to try to take care of their own health with out the help of a doctor, so does not fit in this case, where John Deer says it is illegal to try to repair your own tractor.

 

OK, not the best analogies. But the principle I was trying to state was that whether it is your health or livelihood, do whatever workaround needed to get it done. It is the moral and right thing to do, even if not legal.

 

Another similar case before SCOTUS - printer cartridges. http://gizmodo.com/supreme-court-printer-cartridge-case-could-be-the-citiz-1793643311

What I buy is mine, and nobody can tell me what to do with it. Not talking copyright infringement, such as copying movies, but goods that have firmware, they have no right to do this crap. I am talking morally, not legally.

Keurig does the same with their coffee makers, or at least tried to (I don't have one, so don't know the current situation).

 

I read your post wrong, I thought you were supporting it as just another thing we have to accept in the good ole U S of A. Now that I read it again I agree with you 100%.