Ideal Steel Season #2 Tips, Tricks, and Improvements.

So from the recent comments I feel more certain now the wind played a big role in my inability to cruise lower. Next time I really want to test it (perhaps in the next couple days), I'll check the wind forecast ahead of time. That being said it's not like the thing got away from me like my last stove could have very easily. I might have been at minimum air but the temps did mostly decrease after that. And plugging the air intake to the secondaries is always an option, unlike my last stove that (while prone to overfiring) could not access its secondary air intake since it was in the back and was a tight fitting insert.

I think we tend to home in on certain opinions, just like how you tend to notice more of the same vehicle you own out on road. The forums are well stocked with people that have tried numerous stoves over the years because the last one didn't cut the mustard. I'm in that camp, this is the 3rd one I have bought not counting the 2 I started with that came with the house and 1 pellet stove. And after all that I can say I think I finally have a winner. There are plenty of folks that need more heat, and there are plenty of folks that need milder heat. I couldn't say which scenario is more common unless I counted them, and of course it is only what folks are talking about on the forum not necessarily the entire stove using population. I have heated with wood as my only source for a few years myself. By that I mean my propane tank was completely empty and had no other heat except a couple electric space heaters. If I only worked 8hr days I'd probably have not even bought this stove, but being gone now for 14+ hours necessitated something longer burning. I had a minimum fill on the propane this fall (150 gallons) since I had the new stove ready but not installed, and my insert was already pulled. So I had no source of heat on that side of the house. By the time I got the stove installed around Thanksgiving, I was down to 20% on my propane tank and haven't used any since. I have however been using the pellet stove, this is a two stove kind of house unfortunately. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I can't wait to get out of this house into something more efficient! Taking the IS with my too.

HarvestMan I can see your point of view, being mainly a cat stove burner. I have never operated a cat stove before, just to give some background on me. But slight operational differences aside, isn't 14-24 hour burns (I remember JA had 24 hr burn recently, and maybe others I can't remember for sure) not as long as their other cat stoves? It's been a while since I read about it but I didn't think their cat stoves could burn as long as the IS. I'll point out again I got a ~22hr burn with secondaries for probably 6 hours or so, good temps, mid winter and windy, and the stove was not fully loaded.

 

I think she heard me talking smack.... Cat is glowing, front tep 550, no secondaries. We have a little warmer temps here and no wind.

Also, when I say the stove runs away, it's not an over fire. It's just a hot fire. It's controllable but just on the higher end of output. I feel the hybrid technology makes it damm hard to over fire these stoves. This is for sure a benefit.

 

IS, is my first cat stove, I am new to this as a rookie. in my shoulder season 40 degree days and 20 at night.. I was routinely loading on hot coals after 3 when getting little girl off bus reloading at 9 at nite shutting stove down and reloading the next day at 3 in afternoon. that's 18 hours 3/4 full of popular and apple uglies... not best wood.. my house is notoriously hard to heat split level top 3 levels all have vaulted 18 foot ceilings. My family likes living room to be close to 80...

I am sure I could go 24 hours on good wood.. but I am at border. one area I could see to improve this stove in my sub zero days is a mechanism that as STT.. drops gradually open air control..

 

It was 26hrs, he had to adjust the air every 4 hours to keep things alive. Far from a real life situation.

My intention was not to start a burn time conversation. This isn't about burn time but being able to lock in on the burn rate you want and I don't think the hybrids do this as well as a cat only stove. I think a bigger version of a Fireview or Keystone would be well received.

 

I actually do not see the hybrid aspect of the stove being a detriment in any way. Once it is throttled down enough, the secondary burn is totally gone, black firebox, and the cat. will cruise at over 1,000F so the stove is, in fact, a pure cat. stove at that point. The secondaries only kick in when the stove is pushed harder and at that point they are a benifit. Look at a Blaze King King's particulate output at various settings (I think they show 4 in their manual) and you will note that the cleanest burn only occurs at the lowest temp. burn, as the burn rate increases, so do the emissions. This is exactly why hybrids exist; the secondaries kick in as the stove is driven harder and maintain a clean, efficient burn when pure cat. only stoves fall off in both regards.

I do not have any problem with the I.S. being a hybrid, I am currently having a problem controlling both the volume and speed of airflow through the stove. And again, I believe it is due entirely to far too much draft, which is curable in itself rather than moving to a different stove.

Brian

 

Yep, gaskets are good, with a new door gasket installed this last fall; the entire face of the door gasket as well as the top plate gasket is as pure white as snow, I do not believe there are any outside air leaks.

I did make several changes at one time: new chimney, new flue temp. probe (installed in new position and location), and finally switched out the cat. air feed paddle valve for the felt covered one (to stop the alarm clock bell ringing, which got really quite loud this year..... with the change of the chimney). But given all of that I still think the chimney is the root culprit. I looked for quite a while today and cannot find the damper that came out of my last stove's smoke pipe so I will pick up another one and install it tomorrow night. I believe that will either cure or really curb this new problem. As as already mentioned, if not, I will install a barometric damper just before the flue's thimble and I am confident that will cure both the normal chimney operation overdraft as well as compensate for wind.

And yes, it is frustrating because this exact stove would keep my house at 70F all last year with temps. dipping down into single digits and occasionally below zero. This year, it will not keep the house above 67F with outside temps. at anything below about 30F.

Brian

 

The king is a 4 +cubic' stove that was engineered who knows how many years ago. High burn on a cat is the dirty part of the burn, I'll give you that. Very few people run their stoves at high burn so this is a non issue for *my* point of view.

Is your chimney outside of Woodstocks spec? Maybe the stove now performing how they built it to perform? Maybe last year the chimney it was on was limiting its performance. When you start having to limit the airflow through the stove you can probably throw out any of the emissions test data from when the stove was certified.

Edit: have you taken a draft measurement yet?

 

Yeah I'm not sure how Woodstocks other stoves cruise, or any other non-auto damper cat stove for that matter, as this is my first cat stove (and like Canadian Border mentioned, I am a rookie too, only 2 months in). That would be a nice feature, the BK's auto damper sure would help things run steadier and without manual intervention. That is a great feature.

That being said more often then not I am leaving it alone all day with whatever settings I end up with in 20 or 30 minutes after my shower and leave for work. My room thermometer tracks temps, high and low, etc, and it is quite normal that it fluctuates by only 1 or 2 degrees. That's real life right there, with no adjustments after 30 minutes and until I get home 14 or more hours later. There are some days the fluctuation is more, especially if the outside temp changes quite a bit. I am not one to complain about home temperatures though, and my son is well known to walk around the house shirtless down to about 58F. I'm not like them women that even at work in an office building they constantly complain it is too hot or too cold when the temperature fluctuates 2 degrees.
If it is a day I am home, I am used to tweaking things all day long. For me, it is my main source of heat and a hobby I enjoy.

 

Make sure the cat is placed into the stove correctly.......
Did some maintenance on the stove this Saturday:
Tightened up the handle.
Vacuumed and rinsed the cat (water only).

I had placed the cat in the holder incorrectly last time. I checked the pictures in the manual and it needs to be level - or look like it is pointing toward the door.

Threw some splits on the coals that were still in the stove and the cat worked great. We had been running hard with plenty of secondaries because the temp has been cold. But better performance after cleaning the cat and putting it in correctly. There was only some fly ash on the cat and no cells were blocked.

 

I swear my handle is always loose. I'm always tightening the nut by hand. If I give it the slightest turn with a wrench it's too tight. I can't win with that.

 

Buy an all-metal prevailing torque nut. Same idea as a nylock nut, but without the meltable plastic. You'll be able to tighten it to the friction you prefer and then it'll just stay there and not back off over time.

 

Some times my handle locks right up and I can't turn it at all. Then I have to get a socket and loosen the bolt from the front to get the door open. My issue is caused by the nut on the back of the door spinning inside the recess that was cut for it. The recess was cut just a touch too large I think. I have been meaning to pick up a new nut to try to see if that may help, but haven't gotten around to it.
I have found that it helps the situation to put ZERO lateral pressure on the handle at all. I just put one finger under it and push straight up.

 

No, I have not actually measured the draft on either chimney (and of course cannot on the masonry chimney as it was removed and replaced by the SS one) but it is quite clear that this chimney (SS) both has a higher static draft as well as a higher flow rate. This setup, with the new chimney, is a dream to start a fire in- something that was actually annoying with the original chimney. This chimney will also allow the door to be opened with a load of engaged splits in the stove, again, something that was absolutely impossible with the original chimney. So absolutely yes, last year's chimney was limiting performance but that was actually a good thing once the fire was established and well- engaged.

Again, the first thing to try I think is just a stove pipe damper. Cheap, easy to install and use and pretty fool- proof regarding function. It may very well solve my entire problem and I will have the best of both worlds; a high draft for starting a fire and possibly opening the door for a re-load (though I am still using my draft inducer usually) and then a much more mild draft for normal running.

Brian

 

A split lock washer or preferably, a Bellville washer will solve that problem by keeping some tension on the bolt without it being engaged with the locking lug. The handle will stay where you put it and yet still be easy to move.

You <may> be able to pick one up at the local Home- Lowes but that is iffy; you can grab them from either MSC supply or McMaster Carr. Unfortunately you will have to buy more than one, and with shipping it makes for an expensive washer but it will solve the problem. This is an example of a Bellville washer but is probably not the right size / tension for the I.S. handle: Bellville Washers & Disc Springs | MSCDirect.com

Brian

 

Most of the washer-based anti-rotation solutions work poorly when the fastener or the joint is rotated in normal use. Lock washers, star washers, Bellvilles, etc help prevent vibration induced rotation of the fastener in the event that the fastened material contracts to the point the tension is wholly removed from the fastener by providing a slight spring effect to keep a little tension against the threads.

You need a prevaling torque nut of one kind or another that raises the required torque necessary to turn the nut on the bolt to well in excess of the frictional torque produced when you operate the handle.

 

And that is exactly what a Bellville washer or wave washer will provide- a constant resistance at a predictable and known amount.

The problem with the typical 'nut and b0lt' situation is that there is almost no change in rotation of one against the other to go from zero to 'too much' tension. A Bellville provides a very wide crush depth with positive but reasonable resistance and the user can easily adjust the exposed bolt length up to the washer to provide the correct amount of tension. Further, Bellvilles can be used in pairs or groups, and also alternated to provide an extremely durable spring- stack, much more consistant and far longer lived than any other type of stack spring such as a coil spring.

One Bellville washer, one flat, large diameter washer and either a self- locking nut or a pair of nuts (Easy Boys!) stacked on a longer than stock bolt will work extremely well for putting a reasonable amount of tension onto a rotating latch type handle without changing much due to small changes in bolt length, due to temperature change, for example.

Brian

 

Well thank you both for the help. I take it this washer would go on the back side between the nut and the door correct? A split lock washer is normally available righ at the local hardware store right? Maybe I will try that first. This has only been an on and off issue anyways... And not much of an issue at that. I just keep a ratchet nearby.

 

I guess we all have this issue from an unmodified latch handle? I wonder why it is in production in its current state in the first place? It's a minor annoyance, but you pay 2k for a stove, you should expect the door handle to stay on.

 

I suspect the chimney has a lot to do with how much secondaries you get. Mine is predictable. If I want some secondaries I keep it at notch 5. Under that is pretty much all cat with the occasional flicker.

I did push a load of white ash 26 hours. I don't see how that is not a real world scenario. Yeah, I had to do occasional adjustments, but it kept my house in the comfort zone the whole time. 30-40 or so degrees outside. 71 + inside. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I am same, my Alma mater has a mechanical engineering courses and All course work at UVM requires real world applications.. I may have have requested a simple timer that has 5 pounds of pull over an adjustable time frame for under 50 bucks.. see what these kids come up with this spring.. if I get it and it works I will get plans too, mmmmm I wonder why I want that