In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

I just pulled the trigger on a new stove.

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Sean in the woods, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    BKVP might show up a little sooner if tagged... :whistle: ;)
     
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  2. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    Brenda will do the "tag". That's an order. :salute::salute:
     
  3. Hoytman

    Hoytman

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    When I first seen the CAT on the new Jotul stove I was like ... :bug: It is huge!
     
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  4. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    Right.
    My 20+ year experience with cats ( ceramic and steel) is that they do the job for +/- 12,000 hours of use with proper maintenance.
    It is much larger than past cats with larger grills.
    The new Jotul cat may or may not extent the life. It was not tested for longevity before launch since it couldn't. "20 year warranty" ?
    I'm skeptical.:whistle::whistle:
     
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  5. Chaz

    Chaz

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    You're not alone on that one.

    I figure if I get 3 from the cat in the IS.. It's minimal investment.. especially compared to fuel oil
    :fart::fart:
     
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  6. Dumf

    Dumf Banned

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    True !
     
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  7. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    It’s not just fuel oil Chaz it’s 30% less wood too!
     
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  8. Chaz

    Chaz

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    Well.. I would agree.. but after she retired..we go through the same amount of wood.. But little to no fuel oil.

    I guess everything is a tradeoff at some level.
     
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  9. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    My englander nc 13 I pushed 12 cord through in 1 year:eek: granted not dry.. BUT I do work for myself and mostly from home AND that was a cold year!!
     
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  10. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    upload_2020-9-9_19-58-45.jpeg Tag this...:D
     
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  11. Chaz

    Chaz

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    Ive got a coworker that goes through roughly 45-50 face cord per year in his forced air wood burner..
    :eek:
    :hair::wacky:

    I couldn't deal with that. He spends the majority of the summer working on the current years wood.

    With that kind of usage.. He'd have to go full-on jrider style to make it to a 3 yr plan.

    Nope.. I'm happy at roughly 3 full cord per winter.
    :fire:
     
  12. Chaz

    Chaz

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  13. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Let me guess...is it a HotBlast? (commonly known by disgruntled owners as the Wood Blast...cuz it just blasts right through it!)
     
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  14. Chaz

    Chaz

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    Can't answer that definitively.. not sure, but it's a bit less efficient that the previous one when he purchased the house.
    :headbang:

    I think he's got some serious air gaps.. not enough insulation, and an inadequate ductwork system.. but that's only a "guesstimation" without more knowledge of his house.
     
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  15. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    Chaz That’s exactly what I thought when I heard the 3 yearPlan how the hell am I supposed to get 36 cord in a year!!

    I use 4 cord now so a 3 year plan is not Ludicrous
     
  16. Sean in the woods

    Sean in the woods

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    As am I. BUT with the warranty, years spent designing it for their stoves before putting it into production and their track record I am hopeful enough to put it into my home.

    We shall see...
    :tears:
     
  17. Sean in the woods

    Sean in the woods

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    I noticed that the stove comes standard with a probe thermometer that measures the exhaust temp directly behind the cat so I will be able to see the cat’s actual temp. Got me thinking...

    I’m going to install a couple of these, one with a 4” probe for the double wall stove pipe and one with a magnetic surface mount sensor for the stovetop.
     
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  18. BDF

    BDF

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    You could ask how much a new combustor is. And also ask how the combustor is warrantied, I mean specifically how the warranty works and who gets to decide the combustor has stopped working.

    But as you already bought the stove those questions lose most of their urgency.

    That said, I still believe it will be an excellent quality stove having seen a few Jotuls in use.

    Brian

     
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  19. Hoytman

    Hoytman

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    Found another stove that has fire bricks up top. This one has a steel plate in the top of the stove with bricks above that. It’s a BK Princess non-cat too. Yep...I wasn’t aware of it until tonight.

    Go to post #20 I believe ...

    How to run a non-cat Blaze King low


    M
    aybe BKVP can tell us a little more about it in another thread dedicated to it.
     
  20. BKVP

    BKVP

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    Good morning. Seems I missed these questions. If someone would help by sending me a quick email to Alerts and I will do my utmost to respond timely.

    I am attempting to address a few items listed in the past few posts:

    Old Models:
    We have made over 30 models of wood stoves since 1977. You can send me pictures or post here to help get them identified. Some early Blaze King wood stoves were straight, single air source, non catalytic wood stoves. Our Royal Guardian for example even had some thermal bricks up in the dome area. Then in 1983, we introduced the first, what is called a hybrid, wood stove. That is the PEJ1000. It has both a cat and secondary air tubes. The problem it was very costly to build...even in 1983. And that made it cost prohibitive at the retail level. You have to remember, this was long before EPA started regulating stoves in 1988. Non catalytic Princess and King models were made in our Canadian factory for limited sale into specific areas. These are no longer made.

    Combustor/Warranty
    Early cat stoves failed to recognize the real cat killer! Let me explain. When you look at the surface area of the combustor under a electron microscope, it appear relatively flat. Once the washcoat is applied (this is what carries the precious metals), the surface appears to look like an English muffin. This vastly increases the surface area. If the design of a wood stove has a combustor, it MUST protect the cat from repeatedly hitting 1600F. At 1600F, the washcoat flattens out and the combustor looses the surface area that is needed to burn cleanly. A cat/hybrid stove that does not restrict upper limits, is a design that could lead to combustor failure.

    Imagine a stove has a hole in the bottom of the stove, this is what we'll call the air inlet. There is a plate that has a hinge point and a rod connected to the plate, essentially allowing the user to regulate the amount of air entering the firebox. Often referred to as the damper, at one time a consumer could close the damper until the plate covered 100% of the hole. This did in fact lead to vast amounts of smoke and pollution. In 1984, Oregon state said "enough...you must have a minimum air inlet". That took the shape of a portion of the hole not being total covered. Over the years, the amount of minimal air has increased in response to ever lower allowable limits of particulates. And you all know when stack effect is increased (the difference between inside and outside temps), the amount of air coming through the minimal air setting will increase in CFM. This is not a consumer avoidable issue. This is nature. As the air volume increases and the stove begins to overfire and a combustor can exceed the 1600F.

    A few stoves have a device to protect against excessive temps of 1600F. A manual damper may not. We provide a 100% extended, no fault warranty on our combustors. It would be useless for us to state "against manufacturer defects" because in 25 years, I have only seen a couple of poorly coated cats. That means if your combustor fails due to THERMAL SHOCK, we will replace it within the 10 year period from when you purchased your stove. The leading cause of thermal shock in our units is due to failure to keep the door seal nice and tight. We emphasis this need repeatedly in our manuals. While the total number of failures is minimal, we still need users to read the manual and maintain a nice tight door seal. It is known and acknowledged that combustors age in their effectiveness. The actual lifespan of a combustor varies depending upon the stove design. Other variables too can contribute to extended or shortened cat life. Our warranty covers thermal shock.

    Size of Combustor/Substrate
    Surface area, surface area, surface area. That is what allows a combustor do it's job. If you want to provide wider cell designs, you must make up for it by increasing the size of the combustor to maintain enough...surface area! If you have more cells per square inch, the combustor does not need to be as large.

    There are a number of models now utilizing metal substrate combustors. The reason is simple, the thinner wall tolerances of the material allow the combustor to get to 550F in about half the time it take to do so with ceramic substrates. And while it may appear to the eye the metal substrate combustors do not suffer from thermal shock, they too do indeed become compromised at 1600F! They may not crumble or fall apart (thermal shock), but rest assured they are no more protected from excess threshold temps than a ceramic combustor. The difference is a ceramic substrate may degrade and fall apart whereas in the metal substrate, if the washcoat becomes compromised, the combustor will just plug.

    Sorry for the length of the post, seems I missed some important topics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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