In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

I don't want to install a fresh air intake, but do I need one?

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Troutbum, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. Troutbum

    Troutbum

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    No. That’s fine. I want to listen to other people’s opinions and hopefully learn from them. But, I also need to consider what’s realistic for my own situation. And getting two years ahead on my firewood right now is not.
    I did not say that I get my wood to less than 15% in less than 12 months. I did say that I season it for at least 12 months before bringing it in and it’s maple and birch and sometimes beech. Actually, it’s between 12-15 months before bringing it in (the wood I measured has actually been in the basement for almost a year, but I’m not sure how much it dries out in the basement).
    Woodstock recommends cutting, splitting, and drying wood for at least a year, and in my stove manual they say that after seasoning wood for a year, the moisture content usually ranges from 15-25%. I’m saying that my wood might not be 12-15%, but I’m pretty sure it’s within that range of 15-25%, probably more like 15-20%. I’ll see if I can borrow a friend’s moisture meter. But I think my issues with creosote have been due to my chimney, which I have resolved.
     
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  2. RGrant

    RGrant

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    You're in my neck of the woods, albeit a bit more north than me. If you're burning maple / birch / beech you're pretty close to where you're going to want to be for the wood to dry out. --> Firewood BTU & Drying Chart I like using this chart to see what's what.
    The 3 year plan everyone talks about is a bear to get into, but once you're there it's a load off the shoulders. Reminds me of when I got my first job and my mom became a maniac repeating to save up enough to cover my expenses for 6 months... lol how do you do that overnight? So I feel your "pain" on that one. Feels almost impossible to get 3 years out right off the bat.
    The conundrum is that once you get 3 years out you wind up using less wood because of it being drier... so you wind up using less and it's a little easier to keep up with.
    Took me 5 years to get to the 3 year out thing. And I think I'm finally there this year.
    Now all that being said, what you've explained with the chimney stack and creosote will probably be made better with the insulated liner, that was a great move.
    The OAK is going to be a tougher sell because of your understandable apprehension. If you have a tightly insulted house the fire will breathe better with the OAK. If you have a house like mine that's leaky like all get out it might not make much of a difference.
    I have medium term plans to reside the house and insulate at that time, so I have plans to run an OAK personally.
    All that being said - call Woodstock. They're fantastic with customer service.
     
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  3. Troutbum

    Troutbum

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    I’ve been talking with Tom, the owner of Woodstock. Woodstock is coming to my house on Wednesday. I’ll ask them then.
    Maybe I’ll get to the 3 year plan someday. But, I’m cutting for two households, like I said. I feel like the dryness of the firewood I’m burning is an over simplistic thing when considering what I’ve got going on in my house. Its like when you’re having trouble with the lawn mower and first checking to make sure the lawnmower has gas in it. Its not like I haven’t considered it before, and inevitably that’s what someone tells me. I’m confident that my firewood is in that acceptable range of 15-25%.
    I think I’ve improved my situation greatly by taking care of the chimney. Now, I’m thinking about the OAK and will probably do it, then I won’t have to think about it anymore. But I just wanted to weigh all things about the OAK and the HRV first before doing it.
     
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  4. Warner

    Warner

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    Could you run something temporary to try before going forward with the install?
     
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  5. Troutbum

    Troutbum

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    You mean like running a temporary OAK? I don’t think I can?
     
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  6. Warner

    Warner

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    Running some sort of pipe to a door or window with the opening made “tight” around the pipe. Maybe ridged foam insulation blocking the rest of the opening? Might not be pretty but if it doesn't give positive results you don’t have a hole in your hearth.
     
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  7. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Not necessarily...the requirements for "kiln dried" is just that it been taken to X degrees for X time...there is nothing stating that it be taken to X moisture content...so no, you can have your firewood read the same as kiln treated and still have wet wood...kiln dried firewood is treated just to kill off bugs, not to dry.
    Now, with that said, the species you listed should be good enough after 12-18 months CSS.
    15-20% is great...25 % is getting back into the "creosote factory" range...
     
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  8. Troutbum

    Troutbum

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    Well thanks everybody. Maybe I’ll post something after Wednesday when Woodstock comes.
    I know my chimney is good now. Check.
    I’m pretty sure my firewood is okay, I’m guessing it’s in the 15-20% range, but if I have a chance I’ll borrow a contractor friend’s moisture meter to see how it compares to mine. I don’t cut oak unless a good tree falls or something because it takes too long to dry, and then I leave it longer to dry.
    So I’m left to consider if I need an OAK or if the HRV is enough and maybe needs some tweaking in its calibration.
     
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  9. Troutbum

    Troutbum

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    Food for thought. I was reading some more about introducing outside air directly into the firebox, and some people think cold air directly introduced into the firebox will "cool off the burning environment to cause lower after burn and then an increase in particulate matter going up the chimney" and some people also think it "will produce thermal warp and/or case hardening of the metal structure of the firebox when very cold air is drawn into the very hot firebox".
     
  10. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Hmm...I don't think that almost all manufacturers would offer OAK connections if it caused problems.
    Some stove models still take some of their air from indoors too, even with the OAK...no idea on yours though...
     
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  11. Troutbum

    Troutbum

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    Well they would if they didn’t want to miss out on the market in situations where they’re required, and it may explain why I’ve read that some stove companies have shied away from OAK’s.
     
  12. Geoff C

    Geoff C

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    You could buy a portable air conditioner window kit to test out the OAK


    And you could buy a few pallets of bio bricks to help you get your wood stacked and seasoned.


    I always said I would buy the bricks but the price always drives me away.
     
  13. ironpony

    ironpony

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    Yes, I was of the same thinking, added one huge difference
     
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  14. Troutbum

    Troutbum

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    I’m not saying I won’t add one. I’m just saying I’d like to think about all aspects of it before I do it. I don’t want to just add one blindly, without considering all aspects.
    Seems like most people here are pro OAKS. I can see the benefits of not using you’re heated air from inside to heat the house and your house not drying out as much when using an OAK. That all makes sense to me. But, the cons I found again at OAKS make sense to me too. Ive heard about thermal shock, and that makes sense to me too if you’re adding very cold air into a very hot firebox. And if you’re cooling down the fire by introducing cold air, it makes sense that it may impact combustion too.
    ironpony -What specific benefits have you noticed from installing one?
     
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  15. Highbeam

    Highbeam

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    Will be interesting to hear Woodstock’s opinion and if they have any actual reasons or just the typical gut feeling.
     
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  16. Troutbum

    Troutbum

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    Woodstock came today to pick up my stove. I didn’t really get much of an answer on whether the HRV is sufficient or whether I should install an OAK.
     
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  17. billb3

    billb3

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    LOL at thermal shock. A stove pumping out 30-75,000 BTU is going to be thermally shocked by a 30ºF air input instead of 65ºF ??? Seriously ???
    Well it's on the internet so it must be true.
    You might startle a catalyst by opening a front door and introducing a huge blast of much cooler air, but a OAK couldn't posibly do that with the little tiny air inputs modern stoves have. It's just not gonna happen. You might unlight one, but thermal shock, that's hilarious.

    I don't have an HRV or ERV and my little house is nowhere near LEED certifialble or tight enough to need one or the other but I have an OAK on my oil boiler just because it could be done.
    It makes sense to use "free" outside air. Even with an old leaky house.

    If I had a new modern house that I was paying :makeitrain"to condition the indoor air I'd be putting an OAk on everything I could put an OAk on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  18. Troutbum

    Troutbum

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    Well thanks everyone. Yeah, thermal shock. That was a good one. Guess you gotta laugh at yourself sometimes.
    So now that I know where everyone stands on OAK’s, how bout where everybody stands on the vaccine. Just kidding. I don’t want to know. If it’s on the internet, it must be true.
    Guess I’ll put in an OAK and not worry anymore about if my stove gets enough air or not.
     
  19. Eric VW

    Eric VW Moderator

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    Potential derail here... I actually considered starting a thread about whether or not people would comply with the new potential of.... oh never mind.
    :D
    :hair:

    :rofl: :lol:

    :picard:
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
  20. yooperdave

    yooperdave

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    Back in the 80's, I needed a OAK but didn't have one, didn't install one and regretted it. I went as far as extended the chimney (metal pipe) hoping that would remedy the problem, but nope.

    If ya don't want the dang thing, don't install it! Its that easy. (kinda like the other thing you mentioned.)

    But......if the time comes when you realize the stove isn't burning "right", don't rule out the gains of an OAK. :handshake:
     
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