How long does it take to get your garage / workshop warm with your pellet stove

Hello
Here is a video of a not very well insulated garage with a 25-pdvc approx 25k BTUs with and outside temp of 36 degrees F warming up to 72 degrees in about 1 hour. 2 car Garage starting temp was 47 degrees running heat and fan on 9-9, the Garage is in Michigan in October.
Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Party 4


Therefore I am also doing my own test of my new 22x12 workshop with hardly any insulation in New Hampshire in January
Starting temp outside is 25 degrees and inside workshop is 41 degrees. After 1 hour it is 58 degrees with 48k BTUs Harman Advance set in room temp to 72 segrees
After 1.5 hours it is up to 65 degrees F
Looks like about 2 hours in this case.

Pic 1 - stove
Pic 2 - starting workshop temp
Pic 3 - outside temp
Pic 4 - time stove Tatar was turned on with iPhone
Pic 5 -end time and temp

So how about your workshop or garage?

 

I need 1 in my garage.. currently in discussions with insurance that says NO

 

my wood stove takes about an hour or so to climb fro 53 to 62 or so. don't want it any warmer than that for working. but its well insulated and sheetrocked. 32' X 26'

 

I have an Englander in the 'heated side' of my shop... about 1100 sq. ft. The stove alone doesn't have the HP to get it warm in a reasonable amount of time so I help it along with a small 35K propane forced air heater... takes 30 minutes or so to get it to 60+ depending on what temp I started at... then the pellet stove will keep up to keep it comfortable.

 

A lot depends on what is in the garage...
I have a lot of mass in mine, so when it is all at say 35°,
it would take much longer to get it at a "real" 65°...
Real meaning that everything in the garage would be fairly warm as well..
My "air" may be warm, but not the truck, car,
and all of the steel tools, machinery, etc.
And certainly not near the concrete floor..

Dan

 

I also have an overhead radiant gas fired tube heater... great heater that really warms things up. But thanks to my ex-neighbor who used my shop and ran a one month bill up to $600 a few years ago I don't use it anymore.

 

Good idea to have a booster heater for the initial warm. up! I have a Harman P61a-2 for backup in the 1 car garage next to the door into the new workshop. So today, it was 39 Deg F in the workshop and I fired up both of them to speed up the heat!
The temp shot up like a bullet to 74 Degrees heating up both large spaces in 1 hour!
These 2 scenarios should change for the best when the workshop is full of Roxul insulation!

 

i should qualify that with "after the stove is up to temp" which takes perhaps another hour.
and the 20 odd tons of iron in the shop will need to 'soak' a day or two to make it to a comfortable 60 degree working temp, as Dan said.

 

yea, and most installations instructions, local codes, and NFPA211 specifically prohibit garage installs

 

Unfortunately, That is correct. ;-( I still think gas, oil and kerosene garage heaters are more dangerous!
Anyhow a garage is where vehicles are stored or repaired and gasoline is stored. I do not do that so for me it is not a garage. Some inspectors may say if it has an overhead door and a car can drive in then in their mind it is still a garage. However I do not invite inspectors and insurance people in for fault finding and witch hunting, I just stay warm and safe!

 

Yet it's ok to have them in a mobile home with a gas water heater and furnace...

Me either..

Dan

 

My shop is split in a 2/3 - 1/3 fashion. The auto hoist is in the small section behind the overhead door and is divided by a sliding door. My workshop where I work on my race car and other projects is heated... I had the same discussion with my insurance inspector when he saw the stove vent coming out the back wall. I told him I don't work on anything during the winter and I store my flammables outside... didn't matter he told me to take out the stove which I didn't do...

 

One of my neighbors has her wood stove and chimney sharing the same flue and passed inspection 25 years ago with no trouble!!! It would Never pass today!!!
Also she never had a problem in 25 years.
Still that may not be a good idea and can be fixed, I have the same style Home and put a SS chimney up behind the stove chimney so the furnace has it's own flue.
Anyway, my point here is if there is a reasonable fix for something like this to make it safer, then I am all for it.
Just telling someone to remove the heat they need to work is unacceptable!!!

If the code said that the stove must be on a raised Hearth do to wet floors in a garage (In some areas it actually does say that!) and the vent pipe has to be triple wall like Selkirk DT that draws in outside air thru the third wall so be it! That to me is safer than Any other acceptable form of garage heat that I know of!!!!

Pic 1 - stove flue
Pic 2-3 - new Stainless Steel furnace flue

 

heres the thing:...one person's idea of a "reasonable fix" might not be acceptable OR safe, due to many circumstances, not the least of which being their own lack of knowledge on a subject. We also have to consider the fact that the NEXT folks to own the place might not be so lucky. We also have to consider neighbors and first responders, other household members, etc. Many of these codes aren't developed willy-nilly, and develop from things that have actually gone wrong. And then there is the potential for some attorney to read this and somehow decide that you, as a professional, are somehow legally liable.....innocent or not, that'll probably break you financially....

Got a six shot wheel gun? Put one round in, spin the cylinder, point the weapon at yourself. Pull the trigger. Maybe it goes "click"......does that make it safe, because you haven't shot yourself? Now, someone sees you do it. Hey, it must be safe, cuz he/she did it, right? Didn't kill them, wont kill me......

The other danger here, is people actually come here for advice, and sometimes those folks have no clue what they are doing. They see folks say things like "2 appliances in one flue, and it passed inspection 25 years ago", and they feel its perfectly safe for themselves too, when its certainly more harmful than safe.....but, it must be true if I heard it on the internet, right?

FWIW, radiant heat is likely the safest form of garage heat.

off my soapbox.....

 

Don,did not read/watch all the info here,time is constrained right now,but consider this as a very good post/think about this/please reply,saw some good reply's,you snapped a good one,will try to come back and reply,keep up the good work!!

 

Thanks B.B.
Nothing is perfect
I spent $1500 for a 4" SS liner Plus $500 for the Selkirk DT masonry conversion kit for the pellet stovr in the old clay lined block chimney.
Then I spent $2500 on the new boiler SS chimney to bring it up to the current codes but what about people who cannot afford it? That does not count the copper
coated line to the oil tank I had to put in too!

 

True. But most of the time, the responses here are similar to,
"But you should do what you are comfortable with"..
If I mention 'my' situation, at least... I try to remember that.
I live in an area where wood stoves/pellet stoves are in
TONS of garages/shops...
I cannot recall in a long, long time a fire that destroyed a place
due to one of those situations... And I have lived here over 40 years...
I've read of more deaths from generator fumes, than pellet stoves...
And more fires from cigarettes improperly snuffed out...
And look at the explosions from natural gas
furnaces/water heaters, that level a place, if not several nearby houses.
There is a risk in everything.
So I agree, it is important to tell people of the dangers,
and try to advise on the do's and don'ts
but not important to scare people to death over it.
As for "the next people"... If I ever move.. the stoves are going with me!

Dan

 

ok......
so, Im licensed by the state, both with an HIC and a Construction Supervisors license. I wonder who is going to be at fault if we do an installation in, say, a garage, in clear violation of the state code AND the code the state says to refer to in case there is doubt (NFPA211). I am going to guess its likely not the homeowner.......I wonder, even if I am in the right, how much it will take to legally defend myself?
Point is, there is a reason why the state codes AND NFPA211 specifically prohibit installation in a garage. Something went wrong somewhere.
I believe the arguments of basically "everyone does it, it must be safe", or "...Ive never heard of a pallet stove fire in a garage...so its ok..." are pretty weak.
Its also not a great idea to compare deaths from monoxide poisoning, folks smoking in bed, driving too fast for conditions, gas explosions, etc, to improperly installing a pellet stove.
So, is installing a pellet stove in accordance with code, be it NFPA211, state building code, or manufacturer's instructions? No? Then dont do it.

 

We aren't on the same page.. you completely misunderstand me.
... I don't do it for a living. You do.
If I did, I would do as you.
Your credentials speak for themselves. Very impressive.

Most everything you said, I do not disagree with, for your situation.
except...
For a homeowner to think that if he puts one in his garage he
is doomed, is just silly.
To compare the topic to Russian Roulette, is really, really a stretch.

And I have NEVER said that because I never heard of an accident, means it's ok.
It means I never heard of one.
Not that it hasn't happened. Or couldn't.

Ok... I admit.
I am the type of person that doesn't think I have to call an inspector every time
I want to do something to my house, granted.
Everyone isn't like that. I get it. I'm a New Englander.
And I have NEVER said people should be able to do what they want,
no matter how dangerous.


Dan

 

sometimes these 'codes' have to be vetted for a while before they really settle into something we can all agree on (and makes sense).

in the 1970's, i built a garage for a friend and installed a ground rod off a 100 amp sub panel. AHJ said ( for all you newby's that is the Authority Having Jurisdiction) told me to remove the ground rod because it was against code and would cause 'ground loops' whatever that was. my electrical engineering background said that was @#$%, but in order to 'pass' inspection i removed the 'offending ground rod'.

in 2011, a 'workshop' i built in the rear of my house required TWO ground rods 10 feet apart and CONNECTED to the house ground. OK, that makes more sense.

in 2016, we needed to install two ground rods on the transformer pad for a new 400 amp service (14,000 volts in) and 2 ground rods at the panel. they each needed to be connected in a loop, #6 copper. but not tied together? OK, whatever, at least the code has recognized that more ground is BETTER!

so, what i'm saying is that sometimes these codes need to have time to gel.

to get on point, is only radiant floor heat acceptable in NFPA211 (2016) in a garage? i haven't read it through...