Holy chit! Trouble with my Harman

was going to put my P61a down below years ago but with cinder block walls and concrete floors i assumed they would absorb most of the heat.
around here an un-finished is called a cellar... nixed that and put it upstairs..

 

Unfinished poured concrete. Guess I have my answer.

 

Not good. The stove will spend most of it's time (and energy) trying to heat the concrete.

 

I remember the in-laws basement years ago, about the same size (1,100 sq ft), poured foundation, completely under grade, trying to heat that to dry it out after the perimeter drain backed up from the outlet being blocked from debris, took 2 days to find the outlet, buried in the woods a few hundred feet from the house. Anyways, I'm digressing..

With a 45,000 BTU modine unit, and (2) 18k Kerosene heaters it took about 3 hours to rise temp. from 40 F to 67 F, once everything was heat-soaked it was good: but if the heat sources were turned off for any kind of time - it took awhile to get back up to temp.

Only mention because if you are serious about putting pellet heat in the (unfinished) basement, you may want to consider a high BTU unit w/ serious horsepower, like a Harman P68, is all.

 

Thank you for the info. Guess I'll have to think about it. I have no water or damp issues. Just wanted something other than the furnace to warm it up.

 

As CF says, once you get the walls up to temp, as long as you keep it there it isn't too bad and it will lead to overflow heat in upper floors (not as much as you would probably like perhaps). Once I got the cinderblock walls in my basement covered with 1" rigid foam, it held the heat much better. The floor doesn't soak as much heat in so isn't as much of a concern. Last winter I started laying some subflooring - about 3/4 of it has been covered (furthest away from stove). I think the bare feet thank me more for that than the stove does.

 

Yeah, my basement is finished, I love my stove, it's my first year of owning it, gaining valuable experience, and would do it all again. With the insert, I also had to buy a pricey rail kit to service it and get to the flue in the back. That part is a bit of a drag because you have to pull it out with care and partially disassemble the stove. And the destructions they give to tell you how to do it are lame as they appear to discourage cleaning on the i52 model... that they want you to get it professionally cleaned. But through adventure, deep pockets, the great help from the folks in this forum, and a service call by the tech telling me I was doing the right thing, I can move forward with confidence.

They only thing remaining is how often to clean my flue. I have read what the forum folks say, i have read the Harman recommendations, I have heard from 2 and really 3 professional Harman folks about the frequency recommended here in the PNW, and in the end I suspect my magic number is going to be between all that. I think we all agree more is better. But since there's more work than just cracking an elbow on my i52 Accentura, I need to figure that out on my own through trial and error.

The in print formal legal recommendation is 50 bags. I didn't have problems until 175 bags. Since I am proactive and don't want to wait for trouble, I am guessing between 75 and a 100 is a safe spot. I promise to keep an open mind and update folks as I learn more.

 

I'd start with 75 - once the inside of the flue pipes get coated w/ fly ash, the effect is cumulative -> and quicker for buildup, especially at the elbows and horizontal runs. And if running 3" flue pipe, it's not like there's a huge amount of room in there to begin with.

With the short pipe run we have here: adapter -> 16" horizontal to (90 elbow) -> 24" vertical to [flue block plate] -> 2.5 flex pipe to the smoke shelf in the chimney .. We "could" go 75 bags. I did, this winter.

Well, 65, anyway. Back in Dec./Jan., when it was -20 F outside here. When I pulled the short pipe run, there was a solid 1" of ash, at the apex of the 90 elbow. And it was packed in there. So the effective pipe diameter, at that choke point: was reduced by 1/3. And the inside of the stove, at the combustion blower, and blower chamber, was "ugly". Full of ash.

It was easy to tell it was due for a full cleaning - the stove wasn't burning as good, vs. clean.

But we burn 'heavier' pellets vs. the good stuff you burn there. If we were burning DF pellets, we probably could have gone another (nn) bags before seeing the same buildup. DF pellets burn a.heck.of.a.lot cleaner vs. the LGs we're burning here.

How many bags more, dunno. We clean every day w/ LGs. When we burned 20 test bags of Olympus DF pellets, I let the stove run for 3+ days straight, before the small ash pan filled to the point that required cleaning.

I think you're going to find even at 75 bags, a surprising amount of ash deposited in the venting. But seeing as that's about 1/2 the 175 bags burned before issue - if you're going to experiment in any case, 75 bags would be a good point to get a baseline of the condition of the pipes / flue, when cleaning next time.

Gotta go clean the stove, 40s and Rain tomorrow. Missing the 60-70 degree weather we just had already.

 

Interesting read and will add my 2 cents as I burn / clean different than most here because i live in a leaky old farmhouse.
I have two stoves one in the cellar (Stone foundation and 60% dirt floor) and one in the center of the first floor which we call the stove room. The stove in the cellar is a p43 and the upstairs stove is a P68 work horse.

There are so many variables involved including the stoves themselves, the quality of pellets you burn, and of course the venting system used to vacate the exhaust along with the maintenance schedule you keep and how true you are to it. Also there is the option or variable of adding an outside air kit. Both my stoves do include OAK.

P68: Venting system is vented into an existing 2 flue chimney that I have used for over 10 years prior for a beast of a wood stove. The 3" pipe comes out of the stove runs horizontal for a foot and 90's up to a 3">6" adapter which sits secured to a plate that closes off the chimney opening, this in turn is attached to a 6" stainless steel liner which travels straight vertical to the top of the chimney 26'. Because of the condition of my house I run this stove hard and have never seen any hint of creosote just fly ash and that I clean twice a season and to be honest there is not much to clean . I put an easy ten ton through this stove this year and seeing that I burn so many pellets I do the annual cleaning once a week with the exception of cleaning the flue the entire length of the chimney. I burn top grade low ash pellets mostly .30 and below being mostly Northern Max this year along with LaCrete,Vermont, and some Eagle Valley. This stoves venting system remains exceptionally clean I am guessing because with the exception of the beginning and end of season it runs hard. Although these are pellets it used to be the same with my wood stove as every day when I got home after the wife dampening down the stove during the day I would burn a really hot fire and could actually smell the creosote burning off from the day. Each season there was nearly nothing to sweep as again I ran this stove really hot to heat the old house.

P43: Venting system is a direct vent variation consisting of all 3" double walled stainless steel piping. The pipes exits the stove 8" on the horizontal before 90 up to a straight run 6' vertical, from there it 90's out and another foot on the horizontal before it 90's again for 6' run of vertical to a 45* cap. The draw on the stove is great without ever any problems but with the added 90's it requires more maintenance in addition I run somewhat lesser quality pellets in this stove. It also runs at a much lower temperature than the upstair stove but receives the same amount of maintenance in addition to the full venting flue cleaning VIA leaf blower trick (thanks again Skeet). I have cleaned the full flue 3 times this season so far and will once again when it is done, this stove is primarily used to create positive air (heated) so that the beast on the first floor does not draw cold air in from the cellar and works like a charm.

In conclusion both stoves have excellent draft as I can shut either stove down without any power and neither will leak any smoke into the house what so ever. I have run 14 tons of pellets between the two of them which may sound crazy but this and last year are the first years this old house has been consistently warm through out by a huge margin. Once a week I spend at least an hour on each stove and throughly clean them and have had zero problems, maintenance is key to having a perfect running stove along with decent pellets being run through them. Each setup will create different results but in no time you will learn your setup and whats required to keep it running smoothly and safely. As mentioned follow the guides provided by the manufacturer to ensure your setup is installed safely or have a professional do the install if you have any doubts. Long time wood burner here over 30 years who recently converted to pellets due to time restraints and quite happy now If I can get this old house insulated more a bit at a time Ill be even happier.

To the Gent who is considering installing a stove in the cellar I would say go for it , research it and if it amounts to adding some rigid insulation to your existing foundation walls check it out. The benefits of having another warm place to gather with the family or provide for the family is exceptionally rewarding .

Cheers

 

Usually 50 bags per ton.

 

"Give or take .. more or less." Howdy B!

 

Yup, manual says the same here.

And the 'extended interval' here back in Jan. above, was only due to having the stove running flat-out 24/7 due to the cold.. * But I payed for it, on that cleaning.

I usually pull the short vent pipe section between the stove -> and flue block plate every 25 or so bags / each month, because there isn't any clean out "T" in the setup here: not enough clearance between the back of the stove & fireplace hearth pad, or where the 90 elbow sits inside the hearth.

But it's not a big deal to disconnect the flue piping here: the stove has a silicone gasket slip collar, and I installed a slip collar connection at the flue block plate, so I can disconnect / and swing the whole pipe assembly out for cleaning quickly.

I do agree WW - when you burn as many tons as you do / are using the stove as a primary heat source, it's important to keep the venting clean, on a regular schedule. It just makes good sense to do so.

 

I use my 3" flu brush and from the outside,
push the ash at the elbow so it drops down in the 90 pipe inside.
i then use my long vacuum tube and suck it out thru the exhaust tunnel from inside.
not much room in back of my stove. it's in a corner so saves me from trying to disconnect everything.

 

Well, there are the "long tons" and then there are the 20# bags