Globilization is rapidly introducing new pests that are decimating our forests, the pests are rapidly appearing and becoming too numerous to deal with. What will this country look like in a hundred years. I'm scared. Seriously scared! No smiley face can convey my concern.
You aren't kidding, we got our work cut out for us. Dead and dying trees are a once in a life time bonanza. Sure we cut them up and a bounty of wood. But it is like eating your seed corn!
I understand yrs. ago the Adirondack mnts. we're loged off changing the forests from pine into the hardwoods that blanket them now.
Unless that eastern hardwoods is very different than us I find that hard to believe. Although with white pine I can see it. Around here pine is our climax forest. Meaning if you log it or plant it or do nothing years down the road you will end up with an oak/hickory forest cover. With y'all having white pine which is one of the few tolerant pine species if not only. I could see it being the climax maybe? The hardwoods grow back and then the pines can grow in the under story to replace the hardwood when the time comes. But I still think hardwood is a longer lives tree than. The white pine? But white pine only occurs in the corner of the state not near me so I am not super familiar with it and the whole cycle. But I would tend to believe that there could of ben more pine or pockets back then that are missing today but I find predominantly pine forests harder to believe? But I am no expert on the northern hardwoods. I might try and read up on it next week.
Maine's nickname is the "pine tree state" cuz over to there it was, and still is the king. They grew to huge heights, straight an tall and were prized by the British Royal Navy as mast pines. It was illegal for for colonists to cut them. Which led to many "Mast tree riots" around here before the revolution. They were the mini redwoods of the northern east coast.
Yea I knew maine was. I guess the Adirondacks are not that far away and similar elevation wise. Yea your talking about white pines with the colonist think. Pretty sure thats the species. They grow huge straight and tall.
Like I said we have eastern white pine in the tip of the state in higher elevations. Its our only shade tollerant species and will grow under a mature hardwood canopy till one day it squeezes between them or one dies or blows over and it will take its place. See I'm getting all technical here. Thats why we need a forestry forum
Ah yes... the Irving Pine... ... FORT KENT, Maine — When Maine’s largest landowner decides to implement new forestry practices on its timberland, it’s bound to attract some interest. So when J.D. Irving Ltd., in a move made public last fall, signed a five-year agreement with the Maine Forest Service in 2012 to enter the company’s 1.2 million acres into a little-known, 12-year-old state program called Outcomes Based Forestry, it got noticed. Under the program, Irving was exempted from certain sections of the state’s Forest Practices Act that cover clear-cutting in return for meeting other environmental and economic standards. When Irving’s participation in the program became public in November, it provoked an outcry from some lawmakers and Maine’s environmental advocates, who called it a “loophole” that put Maine’s forest at greater risk for dangerous clear-cutting. It also thrust J.D. Irving Ltd., and by extension the Irving companies that operate in Maine, into an uncomfortable spotlight. Although Irving is one of the most visible and recognizable names in Maine, the Irving companies are fiercely private and work to keep it that way. From timber to rails, agriculture to trucking and fuel oil to convenience stores, it’s hard to turn around and not see evidence of at least one component of what are collectively referred to as the “Irving family group of businesses.” And behind every sign, every truckload of timber or fuel delivery truck in Maine is a member of the New Brunswick-based Irving family at the helm of what have become two distinct corporations sharing the family name. In addition to owning 1.2 million acres of timberland, J.D. Irving Ltd. also operates mills, farms and railway around Maine. James D. Irving and his brother Robert co-chair J.D. Irving Ltd. Robert Irving manages that company’s Saint John-based tissue-making plant, along with Prince Edward Island-based Cavendish Farms, which has expanded into Maine with between 7,000 and 8,000 northern Maine acres primarily used in potato production. Cavendish Agri Services, with operations in Presque Isle, specializes in fertilizer production. James D. Irving oversees all the forestry and railroad interests in both Maine and New Brunswick. In December, he agreed to a rare public interview with the Bangor Daily News to talk about his company, its Maine holdings and his view of Outcomes Based Forestry. As a company, J.D. Irving Ltd. has embraced evolving forest harvest technology and those changes have greatly altered how it manages its woodlots and lands in Maine. “[Outcomes Based Forestry] is holding us accountable and that is fair if you are a serious landowner,” Irving told the BDN. “This is not about Irving running wild and cutting all we want.” Rather, Irving said, the outcomes process will give his company the flexibility it needs to do what his foresters believe is best for the long-term health of both the woodlands and the company. Some feel Irving, however, doesn’t have the forest’s best interests in mind. “Irving’s 1.2 million acres in Maine create an enormous footprint here, so their intentions for their land matter to all of us,” said Lisa Pohlmann, executive director of the Natural Resources Council of Maine. “The company has appeared determined to bend and change Maine’s laws and rules to its advantage, often at the expense of Maine’s environment.” Irving does not agree. “I don’t quite understand this ‘loophole’ business,” Irving said. He pointed out that under Outcomes Based Forestry, all non-clearcut harvests are regulated and Irving must demonstrate soils protection, conservation of biological diversity, overall forest health, local economic support and sustainable forestry. What it does allow the company to do, he said is “improve our efficiencies and do a better job.” He said that in the company’s first year under Outcomes Based Forestry, clear-cutting on Irving land decreased from the previous year and only accounted for 15 percent of the total harvest. But he doesn’t expect this to silence the company’s critics. “You get reactions sometimes from people and [some] that does not favor us,” Irving said. “But we need to be doing a good job in the woods.” Irving is also well aware his company has a reputation for so-called “cut and run” practices in the northern Maine woods, a reputation he says is false. “When you spend $3 million to $4 million a year to plant trees you make sure it will generate a good forest ecosystem,” he said. “We want to leave a good legacy.” [paste:font size="3"]Irving Oil operates 900 fuel distribution centers and gas stations around New England and eastern Canada, 165 of those in Maine. “Irving Oil is a big player in Maine,” Jamie Py, president of the Maine Energy Marketers Association, told the BDN. “They are a member of our association as a wholesaler in heating oil, gas, diesel and propane and at the retail level for heating oil and propane.” While Py said he did not have any exact figures on the amount of petroleum products Irving brings into Maine, he did say it was “a lot.” The largest seller of gasoline in the state, Irving Oil sold about 14.4 million gallons of gasoline in Maine in October 2013, the most recent month for whichsales tax revenue is available, according to Maine Revenue Services. The company also operates or has marketing rights at fuel terminals in Searsport, South Portland and Bangor. “Any Mainer realizes [Irving] is a significant distributor of [petroleum] products in Maine,” Patrick Woodcock, director of the governor’s energy office, said. “Another level is the presence of the refinery in Saint John [New Brunswick] which drives significant regional energy transportation.” The size, scope and strategy of the Irving family has had a lasting effect on New Brunswick, dominating that province’s economy, according to Forbes magazine, with its group of companies owning interests in oil, natural gas, gas stations, timber, paper products, shipbuilding, construction, agriculture, building supplies, newspapers, radio stations and even a minor league hockey team. While James D. Irving wouldn’t discuss family or company finances, Forbes magazine in 2013 ranked his father James K. and uncle Arthur together — as the heads of the family’s businesses — at number 276 on its list of the world’s richest men, with a net worth of $4.5 billion. “The Irvings have been important [to New Brunswick] for 100 years,” according to Donald Savoie, public policy and economic development professor at the University of Moncton and longtime friend of Irving Oil patriarch Arthur Irving. Savoie credits Kenneth Colin Irving, the son of company founder James Dergavel Irving, for laying the foundation for the Irving companies today. “It was K.C. Irving who first gave life to the company — pulp, paper, shipping, gas and oil — they have a hand in virtually every sector of the [New Brunswick] economy,” said Savoie. And it was K.C. Irving who, in the 1940s, expanded his company into Maine with purchases of timberland to feed his pulp mill downriver in Saint John, N.B. “As far as we are concerned, Maine is our home,” James D. Irving, K.C. Irving’s grandson, said. “We have a long association with northern Maine and I have spent a good part of my career there.” [paste:font size="3"]Ashland sawmill, which should create 60 permanent jobs when it re-starts next summer. Irving had previously closed the sawmill on the same site in 2008. While some of the timber for the Ashland mill will come from Irving-owned land, much of it also will be purchased from other Maine timberland owners. And several years ago, James Irving began exploring the possibility of mining his holdings on and around Bald Mountain, northwest of Ashland, for gold, silver, copper and zinc. This year, the Legislature will consider new state mining regulations that would allow Irving to mine the 500-acre site in Aroostook. Irving estimates the mining would create up to 300 direct jobs and hundreds of other indirect jobs, while providing more than $120 million in state and local taxes. He is also adamant the project will only go forward when and if it is proven to be environmentally sound. Much like with forestry, this claim draws skepticism from Maine’s environmental community, who accuse the company of extolling sustainability in a quest for profit. “In our view, Irving appears overly focused on corporate profits that can be made from the natural resources they now own in Maine, rather than a sustainable balance of conservation and economic development,” said Pohlmann of the NRCM. James Irving admits he is a businessman in an industry that must remain competitive in a global market. He insists, however, that good business and sustainable practices — such as those of Outcomes Based Forestry — do not come at a cost to the Maine environment. “We are here for the long term,” he said. “We know we have a lot of critics and people who criticize what we do, but if someone is better informed on what we do, they can see we are interested in the long-term health of the forest and of the state.”
Wow Stinney, No one is slip it past you, good to you for the update. I think they will ultimately cut and run and sell for development when the economy turns in subdivided tracts altering Maine forever.
Double edged sword. Maine needs $$ bad. But, Irving sure has made some messes up there. I haven't looked, but I bet there's photos and videos of the clearcutting they've been doing up north. Not popular among a lot of the locals I think.
This is great stuff guys - just the sort of thing I'd hoped to see, and see more of. I read up about the white pines and it does look like there's a lot of evidence pointing that way. I think some of my sawhorses were Irving brand pine, so that was an interesting read for me too. Thanks guys!
Now you know that's Maine Irving Pine, eh Shawn?... I don't think the Maine loggers are too happy with Irving "stealing" Maine wood, shipping it to Canada, then selling it back here... but, that's what jobs are made of...
Does irving hire local loggers or carina crews? If its shipped to canada or the US most loggers dont care there still logging it. And also development tracts are how they make it now a days. You dont practice forestry near towns thats not the highest best use of that land. Thats what the TIMOs are for Timber investment management. They buy tracts up and when the development potential is there they sell it off for a profit and bug else ware at a lower amount and get more land or just cheaper land and profit.
Most of this type of logging is all mech stuff... not a lot of traditional logging anymore. Here's one of Irving's cuts...
mechanical logging is all like 90% of the nation does unless too steep or too big of trees. The only place I know of guys still falling with saws around here is big bottom land hardwood. And then in appalachia all up n down east coast in big timber and steep and then out west in the steep and big. But now a days with the self leveling cabs they can cut some pretty steep stuff. Around here all our crews are cut down machines tractors(skidders) and loaders. Some crews never pick up a saw unless trimming a scraggly truck. And clear cuts are the most efficient type of harvest keeping production costs down and maximizing storage value to a landowner. A well done clear cut and reforestation with good site prep looks better to me than some crappy thinning job with damage to the residuals and periotic die off from soil compaction.
The only good thing about a cut like that is, the moose will be in there thick when the browse grows back in 5 or 6 years
FWIW I'll put in my vote FOR a forestry section. I only own a small tract of land but I'd like to learn how to properly care for it. Interesting thread. Thanks.
