Even the EV guy gets it..

I agree, PV solar makes the most sense to me when you look at it as a somewhat long term investment.

Congrats on the mini-split install, it is something we looked into but it just doesn't make sense right now. We do not have a large demand for AC and I am committed to wood heat. Maybe someday in the future, if I get tired of dealing with wood (not likely) or become physically unable to deal with it, or when we have some time to travel and need an automatic system to heat, our house is also designed well to accommodate such a system and the PV solar will be there to provide the low cost electricity to power it.

 

Thanks Dave Gunter. You've spent a lot of time providing numbers and detailed information and I think many of us are appreciative. It seems that no matter what you include in your responses though some just like to be naysayers.

 

I think you may be confusing "net metering agreements" and "time of use (TOU)" agreements.

Our whole home battery backup is strictly for when the grid power is down. It is a Tesla power wall and has a capacity of 13.5kwh. It charges automatically and is approx 50"x30"x5" and it hangs on the wall in my basement. It can power every circuit in our home, but the more demand we put on it the quicker it will run out, so obviously we are not charging the EVs from the battery back up and we conserve as much as possible during the outage because who knows how long the outage will be. We basically run our refrigerator, well pump, water heater, wifi router and lights as needed. The Hyundai EV that I drive has "vehicle to load (V2L)" capability. Meaning there is a device I can plug into the charging port and have the traction battery of the car provide up to 1.6kw of power to whatever I want to plug it into. So if the car is completely charged at the time of the outage I have another ~70kwh of power that I can tap into.

Our array is "grid tied". This means that whenever the array is producing electricity it goes to our house first. Should our house demand be higher than what the array production is at that moment then the house will draw from the grid to make up the difference. Conversely, when the array is producing more than our house demand the surplus is put back into the grid and metered as credits to our account.

TOU agreements are when the rate you pay for your electricity is tied to when you use it. This is designed to help reduce demand on the grid, it helps the power company out because of less demand at peak times and the rate that the power company pays is actually dependent on the time of day they buy it. Most EVs have scheduled charging so that you can tell the car to charge from your house at off peak hours.

Net metering agreements and TOU agreements are mutually exclusive, meaning you can't have both.

 

I agree and I had some trepidation about buying 2 brand new 1st year EVs. Believe it or not I am not much of a "techy" person. The tech in EVs is incredible and overwhelming at times and that bothers me a bit, I would much rather have a simple as possible EV and forget all of the tech that makes them so appealing to the masses, unfortunately they do not exist. So being committed to PV solar and recognizing that EVs are clearly the way to go, at least for me, I decided to try and embrace the tech and take the risk on buying 1st year. "C'est la vie" and "Der weg ist das ziel" so you might as well enjoy the ride.

 

I thought about not replying to this post as I am aware that you are "ignoring" me and will not see the reply or likely care...but here goes.

You can stereotype me and ruminate in your spite and hatred of "those kinds of people" if that make you happy. And as much as I'd like to say I don't care what you think of me, that is not the case. I am a Humanist. Humanists stand for the building of a more humane, just, compassionate, and democratic society using a pragmatic ethics based on human reason, experience, and reliable knowledge-an ethics that judges the consequences of human actions by the well-being of all life on Earth. So your disposition while not affecting me in a direct manner does not sit well with me from a humanist perspective.

Best of luck to you and have a nice life.

 

I'll tell you what, once Hollywood makes a movie kind of recreating the Ruby Ridge incident, but where da gub swoops in to go after some off grid guy because they can't exponentially extort him for more tax dollars, this solar thing will take right off. Picture a guy with an EV truck, small cabin with solar panels galore, small river out back where he's got a water wheel hooked to a generator, he played his cards right and retired at 50 and bought the property for cash, grows his own food, raises small livestock on 10 acres... They start plotting how they can squeeze him because he's too good at gaming the system... Yeah, make it about taking a stand, make it about personal freedom, and bingo you've sold a huge swath of the country on the idea.

 

Can that guy fix the EV when there is a problem with it?

 

Heck the dealer probably couldn't fix it right now...probably would need something with a chip in it, and can't get those now!

 

I dunno, maybe in the movie he retired from a colorful career as an avionics expert, electronics whiz, and general jack of all trades. But to get out of the weeds for a second, I see your point. There will be expenses involved when the time comes for repairs. Then again, who has NEVER hired anyone to do something for them? Ponying up the dough to have an expert do the job is something you might have to accept. Like if I had to swap out the transmission on my truck, I would do that myself, but if I had to rebuild it, it's going to a shop.

 

I really like listening to voice of reason and experience. It is much more realistic to listen to what have been experiences vs opinions. Not that opinions need to be ignored. Everyone has opinions, but not everyone also has experience. If I were younger, I would be looking into alternatives, but for me, I have to pay attention to the here and now. One day at a time for me.
I currently heat my living area with pellets and the mini split. The upstairs where my son and his family are, is heated with propane. When the outside temp is above 30, I can heat with the mini split for cheaper than I can for just the electricity to run the pellet stove. When it is below 20 F, I need the pellet stove for heat. I am burning close to 2 tons of pellets + -, per heating season. Having an oversized stove doesn't work out so well in a small area. I even leave the door to the porch open 24/7

 

I know the 5k$ lift for the batteries the old dealership bought so they could sell EV “mustangs” is still sitting on the pallet it’s been there 6 months. Oh and it came with a 15 foot fiberglass sheppards hook to pull the tech off when he gets “stuck” by electricity.

 

Dave G, we have a $100- 110 electric bill year round (average). Our place is super insulated and the cooking is done with LP and the clothes dry on the line or in the boiler (wood-gassification) room in the winter. I find it impossible to justify the expense with my electric costs.
What am I missing as I imagine that you've built a similarly efficient home?
I also have zero plans for any brand new vehicle, electric or not. With our lifestyle cars and trucks have become close to the bottom of the list in terms of "style" or ego as long as they're reliable.

 

EV operator error...so if you want to start calling names, I'd start there

 

My array ain’t doing chit right now.

 

I've noticed quite a few panels around here that have looked like that around here, over the past few months.

 

Dave that’s one of those internet meem thingys I was not calling anyone in particular stupid.

 

It was 26k$ and I still pay for electricity in the winter. With net metering. Most electricians that have came to the house see that and say NOPE!

previous owners installed not me.

 

I will post the actual output for the last 4 years when I can remember the damm password for the enlighten app.

 

I don't think you are missing anything. Powering the EVs just made it make a wholenuther level of sense for us, and because I designed this house from the start with PV in mind. PV also insulates you from future electricity price increases. I'm not sure what a PV system to cover that type of consumption would cost. It is my understanding that there is a bit of a scale in pricing for a professionally installed system, meaning the larger the system the lower the cost per kwh but the scale is not huge. It is also my understanding that in general the ROI for professionally installed system is in the 7-8 years neighborhood. It is also my understanding that the Fed tax credit is available only for professionally installed systems...but I could be wrong about that one. The Fed tax credit is also going away, it will be reduced to 22% in 2023 and maybe another reduction after that before it goes away, don't quote me on that information either and who knows what the lawmakers will do in the future either.