Englander PAH terrible performance

Takes a couple weeks for it to start burning dirty, so time will tell. However I think I was almost a week in from the last cleaning before I unhooked it, so this first cycle might not be the best test. It did seem to be running a bit hotter than normal, so that is a good sign... fingers crossed.

 

Define fine enough screen, there is such a thing as too fine a screen given your installation.

 

The mesh is likely too small.

 

Already mentioned back in post #33

 

It's probably still on there, he needs to get it off so the stove can breathe

 

Says he unhooked it back in post #41.....still waiting to hear if anything improved.

 

True to your word, my oversight
Which means it's time

 

Now until he gets the air bypasses and lack of intake air taken care of the stoves metal in places like burn pot, and around the firebox may became heat stress damaged, that is the end result of building a forge in a pellet stove with no real means of keeping the metal temps below what they can stand.

He really needs to get the venting on that stove switched around so he can get an ash trap installed or he will have to clean the vent pipe out about once a week to keep up with the ash build up.

Pete I saw the OAK mentions and such, he still needs to have it properly hooked up, especially if there is any amount of chimney effect in the stove room. I had to remove most of the OAK screen on my stove top get proper air flow, we won't mention the destruction of burn pot #1, the warping of the back of the fire box heat shield. The warp took some hammer work, the burn pot got replaced under warranty (and the replacement came with a gasket that sealed the burn pot to its receptacle, and blocked about half of the upper row of holes, the latest burn pot has no upper row of holes at all (haven't installed that one, as the second one has lasted just a few years, 7 so far)

 

Hopefully hear an update from T-Stew soon.

 

I should know for sure by Christmas time though so far looks to be better, especially considering on this cycle I did burn a few days before disconnecting the OAK. I have the OAK disconnected for now from the back of the stove, but suspended right by the attachment so it is still feeding outside air in to the stove a couple inchs or so away but plenty of gap to pull room air to make up whatever it needs. I should have some hardware cloth that has much larger openings I just have to dig around in the garage and find it.

As far as the tee goes, I am going to wait to see how much cleaner this thing burns before I go putting even more money into venting. It didn't have significant accumulation in 1 week even when it was burning dirty, or two for that matter. If I can at least go a month before having to pull the rear pipe then I'll be fine without the tee.

 

If this is what you mean, you'd be good to go on the outdoor inlet, but I still wonder about the overall length of it.

www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-4-in-x-2-ft-x-5-ft-Hardware-Cloth-308231HD/204331884"

 

Well the length can't be shortened, and I've seen many run longer, even up chimneys. But if 10 or 12 feet or whatever it is is too long then that was a very important detail left out of the manual. Wouldn't be the first important thing they left out though. The hardware cloth I have to find, just going on memory there, but I think it was pretty fine wire with larger holes. I'll post it up when I find it.

 

Even though you did increase the dia. of the OAK pipe, they actually didn't leave it out of the manual. See P. 15:

"Long runs of pipe and excessive elbows for outside air should be avoided. Due to frictional resistance in pipe, any excessive outside air piping can result in poor stove performance."

 

Just like on the vent side, shorter and straighter is best all else is flirting with problems.

There is a chap one town over from me that was having issues with his PAH he swore that he had done a good job on cleaning the system out. Yep, every place except where the vent entered the chimney, there was a pile of ash sitting at the end of the vent inside the chimney where the thimble was.

All I know about your stove is that you need it installed properly and periodically deep cleaned.

Most issues with stoves boil down to installation and cleaning (even some you might not think would be) because air flow is critical for proper burning and ash ejection from the burn pot. It also helps to use a low ash pellet and yes there are differences sometimes major differences.

 

The length is the important detail that was left out... long run is pretty vague and open to interpretation. I go out for a long run once a week and it is usually between 10 and 20 miles.

So I spoke too soon. Over the last weekend I noticed the flames were a bit tall, and a bit of black soot on the insides when I did my daily cleaning. Monday when I shut it down for cleaning, everything was coated in black. It goes down hill very fast once it hits the point of burning sooty, but timing was good I had today off and weather was record setting wonderful for late December. I went ahead and did a deep clean - everything but pulling the combustion blower (though I did look in and didn't see noticeable accumulation. Brushed the chimney parts. Took special care when I pulled the first section off the stove to see how much was accumulated in the first elbow, since I am determining the need to replace it with a tee. I didn't think it was much at all, but I deffer to those with more experience. I'll try and put up the pic I took later. Also when I whacked on the stove back to get the crud inside you can't get to, quite a bit of somewhat hardened stuff came out. I am wondering if it was in there all summer and didn't come out with my first couple deep cleans. I hate how there are parts that are very susceptible to ash buildup that you really can't get too. But anyway it's back burning away tonight, but will likely shut down in the morning (upper 60s tomorrow!).

I noticed how much better this thing is burning now than after my last cleaning. On a heat setting 1, which is what I've mostly run it on the last couple weeks, the flames were fairly high before. Right now they aren't really even visible - it's burning down within the pot. I think when I pulled the OAK it had already burned enough days to partly clog, so perhaps it wasn't the best test to see if the OAK screen was a big issue. So resetting the counter today, and will see how long the clean burn lasts this time. I however suspect it will not be running many of the upcoming days, I'm seeing 60+ for 3 days and 50-60 4 more days.

Smokey - yeah I agree. My install is far from ideal, the question is just how workable it is. I'd much rather have the stove on an exterior wall with only a few feet of pipe, and even less OAK. But I already have two large hearths in this house I am not about to make a 3rd, and the only other spot I could make it (believe me I have considered) is in the same room it's in now on a different wall. Would seem silly to have a stove sitting about 8' away from another large hearth, but if it were just me I wouldn't care too much. The problem with that wall is there is an old unused brick chimney on the outside of the wall in the center where the stove would likely go. I could tear it down, but then would have to fix the siding and where the roof was notched around it an all. The thing is I really want to move out of this too big and inefficient home. So I really don't want to have to put money into another hearth that someone else might not use (especially in the same room as an existing one) and the money and time fixing the siding and roof. I'm already putting too much money and time into redoing the upstairs which was like 75+ yr old plaster and uninsulated. With the existing hearth there and waiting, I thought this would be a snap to install. Now the OAK screen was entirely my fault, if that is even the issue. As far as the 15' masonry chimney and 10' OAK, well I wonder if other stoves would work better in this setting. Or would they all suffer? I have thought of putting this one on craigslist and getting a Harman P series. Would something like a P61A be able to vent to a 15' high chimney with a 10 foot OAK without considerably reduced performance? Would I have to clean out the pot every day (which on the PAH requires it to shut down) and do a deep clean every 2-3 weeks even with it? I'm still hopeful that screen was my issue, but have contemplated getting a better stove if it would make a difference.