Electrical troubleshooting isn't my strongest point but I think I've figured this one out...just need to confirm before I spend any money on parts. I have a 2006 Honda Rubicon ATV. It has intermittent electric start problems. Sometimes when I press the start button all the I get is an audible click from the starter solenoid. If I jump the solenoid contacts with a pair of pliers I get a little sparkage but the starter won't turn. If I give the starter a light tap with the pliers or pull the recoil start rope a couple inches, then press the start button it will fire right up. I'm fairly sure this sounds like bad brushes or a dead spot in the starter, but I guess it could be a grounding issue or something else I'm not thinking about. Thoughts? I've checked some ATV forums and it sounds like most of those guys are guessing, at best. I know we've got some sharp guys on here that I trust a lot more... Thoughts?
Look for voltage drop testing videos on you tube. Once you do the test you will know for certain if the starter is shot.
I get 11.86 volts across the battery terminals when not running, 13.9 when running. I get 11.86 volts to the starter terminal when the start button is pressed but the starter doesn't turn. Sounds like a bad starter, no?
It does but the drop test will make certain of it. Here is a little info about how an incorrect reading can happen. When you place your meter "across", or in parallel with the circuit you are testing, you are providing another path for the voltage to travel. If there is excessive resistance then your meter becomes "the path of least resistance" and you will register a voltage reading. If the circuit is functioning properly all voltage will pass directly to the load and your meter will register an acceptable reading. "Acceptable" for most circuits is less than .4 volts, although .1 volts or less is preferred. Some starter circuits can allow up to .6 volts during a voltage drop test. Anything higher than these values indicates a need for repair. Repair usually includes cleaning corrosion from connections, repairing faulty terminal crimps or tightening fasteners and connectors.
If you get full battery voltage at the starter terminal with the solenoid energized, then you have a. Open connection within the starter. I would look into how much service work you can do on the starter itself before replacing it. Could be a sticking brush or an oxidized commutator on the starter. Or one of the windings in the armature could be open but that's pretty rare. Usually a bad armature shows up as a short/weak cranking. Disclaimer: I'm no ATV expert, and I'm guessing here, at best. But there are several of us here with ATVs and somebody must've had a starter crap out on them.
First,IMO, 11.86 is a little low for a fully charged 12v battery. If you have a battery charger, top it off. If it does not get to about 12.2v standing the battery may be going. Second, as mentioned above, check and clean all connections. Make sure all the "ground" connections are clean and solid. A single dirty connection could be the reason for the 11.86v reading and the hard starting. If there has been a voltage drop for a while you may have burnt the brushes or armature coil and the starter may need to be re-built. Do a proper voltage drop test across every connection and component. There are not that many points of failure in an ATV. What I have done on small engines is by-pass all the connections by using a set of jumpers directly to the starter to test it. I've also melted a screw driver or two in tight spaces. Only try it if you are comfortable with 12v starter systems... KaptJaq
When I hold the tester on the starter terminal and the solenoid (starter/load side) and depress the starter button I get 0 voltage and the starter doesn't turn. Firm tap on the starter housing with the screwdriver and it fires right up. Voltage is probably a little low for doing a TON of start/stops trying to trouble-shoot it...having the lights on for a while probably didn't help the situation either. When it cranks, it cranks strong.
Voltage drop testing is a very fast way to pin point bad connections and faulty components. Luke's indication of 11.86 volts at both the battery and the starter tells me a few things. He's not losing voltage due to bad connections or grounds, and the solenoid is good and functioning properly. The starter itself could have a poor ground (unlikely unless it's loose) or something inside is open.). He goes on to indicate that a slight tap on the starter or moving the crankshaft a tad will allow it to crank normally. This means the problem is most likely a mechanical issue with the starter rather than a purely electrical problem. If anybody is curious about voltage drop testing, 12V starter solenoids are a great demonstrator. With a digital multi-meter across the two big terminals, you should read within .2 V of "Battery Voltage". Press the starter button and that reading should drop to under .2-.4 V.
If you are comfortable you don't have a voltage drop then, if I had the cash, I would probably get the starter/solenoid rebuilt or replaced. Since I'm cheap things I would try in ascending order of cost/effort: Starter brushes & springs may be dirty, going, or gone. Change them. Solenoid may not be sliding forward enough to make a good electrical connection OR the solenoid contacts may be dirty/burnt. I work on small marine engines and corrosion is usually the culprit. Take off the solenoid and make sure the shaft moves easily. A lot of solenoids have some sort of removable boot that will give you access to inspect & clean the shaft. Make sure there is no dirt or hard grease where the shaft engages the starter gear lever and the lever moves easily. (varies by type of starter). Any problems, replace the solenoid. (A good car parts place should be able to match it...) All else fails replace/rebuild the starter/solenoid. My opinion... but I'm not used to working on engines that are not rocking with the waves. KaptJaq
The solenoid on this is more of a relay. There are no moving parts (at least no serviceable parts). All connections are corrosion free. I'm pretty convinced it is the starter.
Not sure. I've never done a starter before, but I'm gonna at least pull this apart and see if anything looks obvious. If the problem isn't staring me in the face I'll probably spend the $60 on an aftermarket starter and be done with it.
Looks like brushes are only $14 here: http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/a/hon/5053dd58f870021c54bdc6f4/starter-motor
This looks like it is probably the culprit... The brush on the right hand side is almost gone. Everything else looked good inside. The o-rings are pretty dry and need to be replaced too.
Sorry about the off topic question but what the hell is the orange and black thing in the right side of your pic?
That looks better...just got stuck somehow. Cleaned everything up real good and reassembled. Fires up every time now!!!!
Good fix Luke - I'm late to the party but would have suspected the brushes with the voltage readings you were getting being good. Tapping was probably knocking a few bits of carbon to complete the circuit. Are there threaded screw plugs on the back of the brushes? might take them loose and make sure it's clean back there as well. Now I have to start a thread on fixing my 4wd - will wait until I've checked a few things
