Cutting a hole in the Ideal Steel Radiator above the cat?

You got it! That’s what’s being used by kitchen stove rocket heater builders for a couple years now, and they’re operating at temps at least as high as above the cat. See if you can get the top off then carefully cut/work the glass out of the metal with a razor. Scrape off any remaining glue/gasket.

 

That is almost certainly because there will be no cost. I cannot and will not speak for Woodstock but if they did not give you a price, and they did not request a method of payment then that kinda' only leaves one option really.

They seem to be replacing the old type with new ones this way, treating the old ones as a defective part design.

As you said, easy, and also fast, responsive, pleasant and a truly honest effort to help, whatever that might be including having you NOT buy something. Truly excellent customer service and a top- notch company. I am not saying this as a shill but I AM a fanboy but only because their behavior over several years has convinced me that all I just said is simply true.

Brian

 

OK, read this whole thread a I love this stuff- tinkering around with a wood stove..... it is like sex, only good!

All very interesting stuff. At first, I thought the insulation under the radiator would be a bad idea but after further thinking, it think it may well reflect heat down into the combustor, keeping it hotter, especially at relatively low temperatures, and making it work both better and longer. But that leaves the problem of containing the heat w/in the stove. In the first year, I made a mod. of capping off most of the back of the radiator to force more of the exhaust and heat forward, to provide a longer flue gas path before reaching the stovepipe. Hollywood did the same thing, and we both have a four- thermocouple recording device on our stoves and both found basically identical results: it raises the temperature of the stove top and drops the temp. of the exhaust, meaning more fuel energy in the house. Now if the bottom of the radiator was made reflective and insulating by covering it with ceramic, and the back blocked off, most of that heat would have to come forward. Which would result in more and faster warping of the top plate unless.... the top plate were clear ceramic! I think these three mods., done together, would compliment each other and might prove to be a real improvement. Youse guize got me thinking about this.

And of course, once the ceramic glass was procured, it would be super- easy to try different configurations, such as steel radiator, no radiator, capped radiator, lined radiator, etc. And I can collect enough data that I think we can make some sense out of the changes.

Outstanding!

Brian

 

Sounds like an interesting mod could be in the works! Make one for BDF to try if it truly becomes a real thing. He has all the data logging gadgets and gizmos to test out the theory and compare to his other burns.

 

I cannot see any reason why two pieces of glass would not work, at least for trial purposes. I just measured my own stove and the min. glass size would be 12" X 25 1/2", so that 14"X 14" limit is not a 'deal- killer'. Hmmmm.

Too bad it is so far out in time, I may poke around and see if I can find a faster source.

Brian

 

I found this seller located in New York state: Wood Stove Glass Pyroceram 15 x 21 3/4 3/16 thick Pyroceram wood stove glass. | eBay


I asked the same question, and got this reply: " I made an item number for you to order from if you want it Wood Stove Glass Pyroceram 13 x 26 x 3/16 thick Pyroceram wood stove glass. (Item ID: 272949729435)
188.10 which includes delivery."

 

Just asking a quick question for your opinions. I cleaned up the stove and chimney yesterday. The stove has been through 3 burning seasons and I've watched the ideal steels radiator degrade over the last three years.

Its warped but still functional. My question is, do I let it as is until it's no longer functional, do I try and try and pound it flat, or call Woodstock and get a new one.

Here's a few pictures of the radiator right now.

Thanks

 

That looks like a first generation heat shield (radiator). If it is, I believe Woodstock will replace it with a second gen. radiator at no cost. The later radiators have a stainless steel sheet metal covering to prevent the scaling from falling off the radiator and piling up onto the combustor.

But the radiator will still sag; mine is the new type and I believe 2 yrs. old and it is sagging in the middle also. Nothing I can think of will prevent steel from sagging when it runs so hot (well over 1,100 F and often much higher). I believe the 'fix' for this situation will be an additional leg or two on the front of the radiator to support that lip that sags. It has to be slightly off- center to prevent it from hitting the thermometer or thermocouple and so may require one on each side. ??

I would suggest giving Woodstock a call- they are usually very good about these things and this is a known issue.

Brian

 

Emailed Woodstock and Mike replied within a half hour and will be sending me an updated radiator!!!

They have the best service! Thank you Woodstock!!

 

Great. But remember, that new radiator will sag in the middle just like the old one. I suggest getting a piece of steel stock the right length and 'setting' the radiator front lip onto it to prevent that from happening again.

Brian

 

What’s the typical thickness of ceramic glass for the stove door windows?

 

Is the WS current radiator the one that has the SS plate in the underside?

 

Yes here are photos of the new one I just got last week.

 

I do not know and maybe there is no standard. ?? I have seen 5mm thick, extremely high- temperature ceramic (what we are calling glass- and it is clear, more or less) which is about 0.200" or just a little under 1/4 inch. The two pieces of glass in the Ideal steel are much thinner but there are two of them.

I would have already bought and hacked- up a stove top to try this idea out by now but to be honest, the exhaust stack temps. are already so low I wonder if a glass plate over the combustor would really improve the stove. ?? That said, it would have a tremendous 'coolocity' factor IMO.

Brian

 

Those high cat temps, or in some cases secondary air temps in a tube stove, is exactly why I prefer the older non-epa stoves. I’m not saying I won’t buy a modern stove...heck I’ve only been looking at brochures, internet websites, and forums for about 3 1/2 years now. In all cases where a stove has over-fired( not saying WS’s have), the window from proper operating temps to over-fire is simply too small for my liking. So, rather than buying a modern wood stove now, I’ve elected to wait until the 2020 stoves are here with those that can produce a stove to meet those standards, and I’ll simply wait to see how users like them.

I’ve also chose to go with anthracite for the time being. I’m happy to report the stove I ended up buying used, was nearly new for an 18 year old stove with only a handful of fires in it. The up side to this stove I bought, one forum member from the Coalpail forum was a statistic note taking freak and he reported a six day burn from a cold start, 90+ lb. load of anthracite, until the fire went out...6 days. Try getting more than two days out of any wood stove. Ain’t gonna happen. I digress though...I do love burning wood and have no idea if I’ll enjoy coal burning at all. Something about the faint smell of wood smoke.

 

Is there other steel types that would handle the heat better? A thinner piece of SS may do the same job and not sag? and never need replacing.... I can understand the cost would be increased but we make the WS calls every couple years to get radiator replacements.

 

For the radiator? Not really. All steel, stainless or carbon steel, will soften to the point of not being able to support itself over a certain length when heated to the temps. we are talking about. The 'cure' IMO is a stanchion or support in the front of the radiator. I plan on putting one under my new radiator when it shows up. The radiator may still sag but 1) it will be much less because the span between supports will be cut in half and 2) a bit of sag is no problem as long as it does not interfere with anything, which is exactly the problem now- the radiator sags until it hits the thermometer / thermocouple.

Brian

 

I wonder if there's enough room for two small supports made of soapstone? I haven't even seen the top of one of these stoves, but thought it might be possible being that you mentioned a support for the front of the radiator.

 

If nothing else, if there was steel or cast support (pin or pillar), then a small piece of soapstone with a hole in it could slide right down over the steel or cast pillar. The stone would become the sacrificial piece (saving the pillar). The stone (soap or otherwise...so long as it can handle heat) could be replaced relatively cheap I would think versus having to replace an entire plate or radiator. Again, without knowing exactly what I'm looking at...this idea could be way off.