Kind of a stupid question but here it goes. I’m getting my new liner installed this week I’m going from a 8x11 clay flue to the 6 inch like it is supposed to be my question is with going with the correct size flue help wit the efficiency of my stove. Thank you Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In theory it should. The stove should draft better and it should require less air. Certainly post your results! My stove has a 6" outlet then goes to an 8" external chimney. I've been kicking around upgrading the chimney. But it's a weekend place, and not sure it's really worth the investment.
You probably won't be needing to be sending quite as much heat up the chimney to maintain a draft. That's a big hole to keep warm.
That's what I have, a big old huge terra cotta flue, with 6" SS liner installed. Seeing that I went from an open fireplace to an efficient insert, I can't tell you what you'd gain in efficiency, although it has to be something. What stove/ insert are you doing this to?
Agreed, I tried to install an insulated 5.5" liner down an 8x11 clay flue. There was a slight bend in the run and it would not go past it... Didnt want to break out the clay so I had to go to plan B, an exterior class A chimney up the side of the house 22 feet. Easier to clean for sure.
I think my clay flue is 11x11 or so. I had zero issues getting the liner installed, although I didn't use an insulated liner. You can always put insulation in between the flue and liner.
An insulated 6” liner literally falls to the bottom of an 11x11, 8x11 is a totally different situation. It should be insulated.
If I didn’t have to tear out a clay liner then there’s no way I ever would. Nothing wrong with clay if you take care of it. It still passes new construction codes nearly everywhere. Burn dry wood and you’ll never have a problem. Burn the chimney hot once a week and never have a problem. Heat it up too fast...can present a big problem. Any stove will operate best and chimney draft best if the chimney matches the stove outlet. Most manufacturers have a chimney size range their stoves will operate well with. Many may not want to tell you what that range is. Dealer’s can make more money by selling everyone a liner. Some act like they won’t install a stove if you don’t change liners. Bull!!!! I just learned from one manufacturer their “range” for proper chimney size is=Ax3. That is, the area of the stove outlet times 3. As long as it’s not more than that then all is good. I’d wager most manufacturers have a similar range for proper chimney size.
So the chimneys clearance to combustibles won’t ever be a concern to you? Rarely do they meet code. The only way to remedy this is to insulate the liner.
To answer your question...Did I say otherwise? No! I made no reference to insulation or clearance to combustibles. I said I’d never tear out a good clay liner if I didn’t have to. You said, “Rarely do they meet code”. If by saying “they”, if you mean clay...as in rarely does clay meet code, you may want to check that to be sure. If said clay (which is always surrounded by masonry bricks/stone/block) is in good shape, or passed an inspection, then it’ll meet nfc as an approved liner. Let’s not be confused on “lined” and “unlined” masonry chimneys. Lots of “unlined” masonry chimneys still being used today. In front of me I have a manual for brand x stove. The manufacturer, upon building that stove, initially has no idea where in the U.S. that stove will be sold. There are zero restrictions listed in this manual as to where these stove units can be sold. None! The same manual lists two (2) nationally approved “flue systems” which can be chosen to be used with their stoves...or any other manufacturers stoves for that matter. One is a factory built system. Take a guess how it’s made and built. The second flue system approved for this stove is a masonry flue system. Take a guess how it “will” be built. The masonry flue system “must” have a “liner”. Care to take a guess how many types of “liners” are “acceptable” and meet national fire code? There are two “approved liner materials”...stainless steel AND clay, listed per this manual (current per this date)....good for anywhere in this country, or there would be restrictions as to where this manufacturer could sell their stoves...of which there are no selling restrictions. None!
I’m very familiar with how this all works.. A masonry chimney is required to have proper clearances just like a factory built chimney. Like most, if the clearances weren’t honored when it was built, The only way to accomplish this is by insulating the SS chimney liner, if there’s not room for this, then the clay liner must be removed.
With all due respect, if a person reads your words very carefully none of what you said makes any sense. What you're thinking and what you're typing are two different things perhaps. That's okay...I do this at times myself. If clearances were not honored when a home was built, it IS the OUTSIDE of the masonry that does NOT meet codes. NOT the liner. Keep reading and I will explain it. There's a difference between the two. 1. Clearance between the clay liner and combustibles? No such thing. Period! OR 2. Clearance between the masonry and combustibles? Used to be a 2" minimum, but may have changed. For the purpose of this discussion, let's keep the clearance at 2" for sake of conversation clarity. Doesn't really matter if the clearance is 2" or 10" clearance because the measurement is taking from outside the masonry to the combustible. (I've got a brochure from Erie Insurance in front of me circa 2007...which lists a 2" minimum clearance. Also, must have 4" approved brick or chimney block with a 5/8" clay flue liner. Remember, this info is from a 2007 Erie insurance brochure and it's likely clearances could be different today. Those clearance would only increase, not decrease.) Clearance from where? Let's define what clearance they're talking about. By the way, an insurance company (and I'm sitting in an insurance office) is not going to insure anything that doesn't meet national fire code so long as they inspect what they're insuring first. Won't happen. Number 1 is out. So let's move to number 2. If the "clearance" is the issue to begin with, then the entire chimney system does not meet code. This is rare among homes built when codes were started being enforced, else the entire chimney wouldn't have passed inspection. Period! That's not to say someone didn't let it slide...but that's a concern for another topic. If this chimney does not meet the 2" minimum, then the entire masonry system must be removed, but CAN be rebuilt with the exact materials as long as it meets clearance. Clearances for outside masonry to combustibles (talking about an inside the home chimney)...according to Erie Insurance company brochure for the year 2007 is listed as being 2" between the outside of the masonry and any combustible. If there's 2" between the masonry and any combustible, tell me this...where does all this having to remove a clay liner discussion you mention come into play? It doesn't...it can't. The liner is inside and the outside measurement of the masonry already met the clearance to combustibles. Once masonry clearances are met, you can line with clay or a SS liner...doesn't matter. IF that would not be the case then no chimney sweep would be legal in removing a clay liner and installing a non-insulated SS liner. Sweeps install non-insulated liners all the time inside of masonry chimneys. Do they break the law/code? Of course not! The outside of the masonry is the only clearance measurement taken into consideration...it's the only needed measurement. Now, you can insulate between a clay liner and the inside of the masonry wall if you want...with vermiculite, etc., but that's not what we're talking about. Even then, the outside of the masonry must meet the minimum clearance to combustibles, regardless of the measurement...be it a 2" measurement or greater measurement.
I’m not going to waste my time reading all of this. Even with a good clay liner, if the masonry chimney structure does not have 2” of clearance inside of the structure of the home, and 1” outside of the home it is not code compliant. The only way to make it code compliant is to install an insulated UL listed Stainless liner. Sometimes this requires removing the clay tile. It doesn’t matter how you feel about masonry chimneys, it’s residential code.
You're totally free to not waste your time and even free to twist the words I wrote and free to disagree with me...all that has no bearing on you comprehending what I wrote. That insulate liner you just stuffed down that masonry chimney...if it even fit...would have passed even if you ran it straight out the roof with no masonry. You did not bring a masonry chimney back into code because the clearances are what they are. All you did was keep yourself from punching another hole into the roof. It's a technicality on the play of words, but it's the same no less. I stand by what I wrote. I'll add this...if you feel so inclined to read... Take for instance a BK, King model, or a Kuma Sequioa...both 8" outlet stoves requiring an 8" chimney outlet minimum. If either of those stoves are hooked to a masonry chimney AND an 8" round clay flue liner that is good. Now let's assume you find out through inspection the masonry itself does NOT meet the minimum 2" clearance...there, I said it a 2nd time...there needs to be a 2" clearance of which the liner has nothing to do with the clearance measurement. Me and you are already in agreement there must be a 2" minimum clearance to combustibles for a masonry chimney to pass inspections. At least you seem to be in agreement with me. Let's move on with the scenario... IF there is no 2" clearance how do you propose to bring this chimney back up to code without rebuilding it from the ground up? You can't just remove the 8" clay liner and install an 8" inside diameter insulated chimney because it most likely WILL NOT FIT. Now what do you do? You either go straight through the roof with that insulated SS pipe or your rebuilt the masonry to code...which can have the clay liner as it does meet national fire code already. Don't let a stove salesman or a chimney sweep blow smoke up your stack...both are trying to sell you something. Let's take this a bit further...you take the time...as I just did...and call this number to the NIC...the National Inspection Corporation...888-433-4642...they base their inspections off of the national fire code...NATIONAL! Ask them this: IF clay liners are still allowed in new home construction. You will find the answer is yes. Again, I never said, in any post that I made that a 2" minimum clearance wasn't needed. I in fact mentioned it several times. What that means is this...homes can still be built with masonry chimneys, period. Those chimneys, when they go bad, can be replaced with another clay liner, period. You can also use an insulated SS liner IF it will fit...you can also use a non-insulated SS liner because the masonry clearance to combustibles is already met. Now, again, tell me...show me anywhere in any post where I've been wrong. Show me in quotes...and if you can I have no option to admit that I missed something. I'll tell you right now, you won't find anything...you simply assumed I was saying something I wasn't.
I’m not here to argue, just to help people that are honestly looking for advice. Clay flues do work, and can be safe. An insulated liner or class A chimney will be safer and outperform a masonry chimney hands down...
