Catalytic vs non cat video

Yep, you are right, you can open the bypass and open the door of a cat. stove anytime and load any amount of wood in it. It is not critical or even particularly 'touchy' as to what is done and when it is done regarding loading.

Most of us tend to allow the stove to burn down most of the fuel, including the coals generated at the end of a fire, so that we can fully load the stove in one shot. Not because that is required but because it just reduces the number of times a stove has to be loaded in a given day. If things work out right, there is a bed of hot coals, maybe 3 or 4 inches deep, and the rest of the firebox is available to load fuel. That is how to get the longest burn out of any wood stove. Sometimes though when you want to load the stove it is still half- full, so you top it off and leave it.

The whole thing is not that complicated- our ancestors used to heat with wood by burning it on the ground. We advanced that all the way to putting it inside a box.... but it is the same process and works the same.

Some of us pay more attention to the smaller details than others and of course several of 'us' have answered you on this forum, so you probably have a sense that burning wood has to be more complex than it really does have to be. Really, open the door, throw in some small pieces of wood and set them on fire and then thrown on full sized splits, close the door and adjust the damper and leave it alone works very well. You only have to be aware of and limit the stove from reaching really high temperatures (I mean really high, as in the smoke pipe or any part of the stove turning red), and running it so low that there is no flame inside the stove and it smolders because that will make a lot of creosote in the chimney. Other than that, it really is a big steel box with a fire in it.

Youtube is a great resource for learning just about anything, and the care and feeding of a wood stove is a perfect example. Spend a bit more time there and maybe a little less time here, listening to us discuss the finer points, and I think you will get a better overall picture of how it works. After you have been burning for a while, you may want to make small changes to keep the glass cleaner, extend the burn or increase efficiency. But starting off, none of this should be of concern and certainly nothing to worry about. Burning wood is actually very enjoyable to most of us I think and you should have some fun doing it also. Starting off, just be aware of a very few safety considerations such as not allowing the stove to get too hot checking the chimney now and then and you will be fine.

 

I was in a similar boat as you in regards to trying to conceptualize how a catalytic stove works.
I'm going to attempt to be clear and brief for simplicity's sake, not in an attempt to be rude, so please don't take it that way if that's how it winds up sounding.

The major premise for a catalyst to work is the temperature that it is at. Once the catalyst is in the active temp, it will work. Load the stove, get it up to temp engage the catalyst and you're good to go. If you want to add more wood, disengage the catalyst, open the air controls, open the door --> load the wood, close the door, engage the catalyst and set the air back to where you want it.
It's really pretty straightforward. I was intimidated at first, and there is a little bit of a learning curve. I think of it a little like learning how to drive a stick shift. Seems like a mystery at first, but once you get it you're like "it's that easy??".

 

I’m going to watch some Woodstock YouTube. I’ve always wanted one of their stoves. They also have a pretty good library of articles on their website.

My nc30 could easily be replaced with an IS!

 

Yeah, as crazy as it sounds, the cat seemed so magical and like "don't touch it" to me. Now I understand how you operate the stove with it, and its like Ta-da! I'm used to applying and running fires in the wild outdoors, and am fairly detail oriented cause the details are what can bite me. The fire in a box in a house is a bit of a new venture, and my mind tries to run and figure out details. And I don't know what I don't know, till I know. Thanks for all y'alls help...keep it up!

 

Late to the party, but here are some of my experiences with a Woodstock Absolute Steel hybrid stove
A. I can usually engage the cat after 15-20 minutes. I get up, feed the dog, put the coffee on, built a top-down fire, drink the coffee, and then it's time to drop the cat lever. It's just part of the morning ritual and never delays my departure for work.
B. If something happens and I can't engage the cat, having a hybrid stove means that I won't fill the sky with nasty smoke and annoy the neighbors
C. You don't need to disengage the cat as the fire burns down at night
D. We heat 1800 sq ft with the stove in a cold climate (the UP of Michigan), and the heat is plenty mellow as the fire burns down. In our former house, we also had a soapstone stove (Hearthstone heritage; non-cat; with the soapstone on the outside of the stove), and there was no difference in the feeling of the heat.

I let the fire burn completely out, because I like to sleep in a cold house, and then I rebuild a fire in the morning. One load of wood each 24 hours is plenty for this well-insulated house in a cold climate.

Good luck with your decision!

 

What about draft sensitivity with cats? Except for Jotul's high flow combustor, most cats are quite restrictive on draft. Combine that with more moving parts, more gaskets, I've had plenty of experience with straight cats, hybrid cats, and non cats to know that wood burning stoves just dont need them. A well designed non-cat system is all that is needed to burn wood cleanly and make heat. Plus you get nice clean glass, and a firebox not caked in creosote!

 

Hope everyone had a very Merry Christmas and all stayed safe. We are blessed and had (are having) a very good Christmas. It's amazing how a 5 year old can change your whole perspective!

To make sure I understand what I have been reading... The hybrid stoves..the have secondary burn and cat...does this mean the cat is optional to run, and if you don't engage the cat, you still get an efficient burn via the secondary...or do you need/have to run the cat on these stoves? Some things I read have me scratching my head a bit. Wondering if there is a stove out there where you can have the option...run the cat to get the most when you want, but not run the cat (and not harm stove or system) if you need to (say if your cat goes down and you can't replace for whatever reason).

Also, after much reading and thinking about what we need, I believe due to our setup a stove with close clearances is needed. Can anyone throw out some low CTC stoves? I know the T4 is low. Wondering if any soapstone stoves are considered low ctc?

I need to start writing down notes on my thoughts and findings...its getting foggy trying to remember and get back to what information I find, even on this forum. Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

I'm not completely sold on welded steel stoves. My IS has some cracking going on.

 

I did it yesterday because of this cold snap i wanted just a little more heat in the afternoon. It helped to carry the house temp a little better through the day.
I very seldom hot load.

 

I only see one problem with your routine...
Start the coffee first...

 

How a hybrid stove acts with the bypass open depends on the particular stove. Some still use the secondary burn, others may not. But just as a suggestion, if you are thinking of letting a cat. based stove (or hybrid) run with a failed or missing cat., I think a non- cat. stove might be a better choice in the first place.

As to the 'getting foggy' trying to remember everything, not to worry- that will improve tremendously with age. You are middle- aged right now and that is part of your problem; once you get a few more decades behind you, your mind will become a steel trap, forgetting absolutely nothing. You will become stronger, have better endurance, see, hear and smell better and all those little aches and pains after lots of physical work will just disappear. As an aside, you will get taller and more handsome every single year after reaching 50! Rest easy friend, EVERYTHING gets better with age!

Yeah, that's it......

Brian

 

Thanks BDF, sounds like everything will be getting more and more awesome-r with age...taller and more handsome? How's my wife gonna be able to stand it!
Yeah, Im a bit torn on the cat thing... I like the efficiency and longer burn times, but dont want to have a problem if cant get a replacement cat for the stove in the future.

I never had any idea there was so much to learn about woodstoves..I'm really glad I stumbled upon this site! I definitely pay more attention to smoke coming from chimneys now...lots of smoke dragons and wet wood around here...

 

BDF - 56 here and I’m not experiencing life as you described. What am I doing wrong?

One comment on cat stoves and firebox full of creosote? My IS firebox contains no creosote after a burn, just fine ash. Of course I burn dry wood too.

Gpsfool

 

Yeah well, long ago, old folks found out we have to hide all the benefits to age from the young folks or they begrudge us things such as social security, Medicare and handicapped parking permits. So remember what Cicero said those millennia ago: 'The multitude of fools are a protection for the wise'. Blend in. Act daft. Act as though you do not understand what is happening around you. It lulls the young folk into kindly behavior and falsified respect. And it seems that women do not gain from these age- related benefits so it behooves us to play along and act decrepit.... starting with and most significantly acting as though we simply cannot hear them (due to our decrepit hearing skills). So we have to indulge them- how do you think 'eye- rolling' was invented? By ancient but awesome men simply telling the truth about their exploits and frankly amazing abilities. So we tell them we are going to the bathroom again.... instead of correctly prowling the territorial perimeter several times per night an any warrior worth his salt would do......

But back to woodstoves: put simply, a catalytic stove can squeeze more efficiency and a longer, more even burn out of a given load of firewood than a non- cat. stove can. But it comes at the price of increased tinkering, more attention to detail and of course the need to replace the combustor relatively often which translates directly to a yearly expense (not meaning you need a new combustor every year but you have to average out the cost and it becomes a yearly expense even if the cat. lasts three years).

Really, the whole thing comes down to, at least for me, overall efficiency as well as longer, slower (but still very clean) burns. At the end of the day, I have always had a soft- spot for the ancient pot- bellied stove: simple, easy to start and use, burns anything and if used on the hot side, an extremely clean burning stove as well as a super easy to maintain (removing ashes, feeding the thing, tolerance for air adjustment, etc., etc.). Bit pot bellied stoves are cold in a few hours; the only way to get a warm, if not hot stove 10, 12 or more hours later, and one that will instantly re-light a fresh load of splits has been the combustor based stoves.

Spending $2K, $3K or more on a 'let's see if I like it basis' is truly off- putting, and I understand that. So now for that completely left- turn: how about one of those $1K or less 'big box store' stoves, safely installed, and using it for a year or three? Then you will have a great feel for what you like, what you do not like and especially what you want to change all on the inexpensive side? When wood stoves made a big comeback in the 1970's, the biggest use for them after the first year was as potted plant stands. Heating with wood is not a simple, quick or easy task and <most> people simply do not realize just how labor intensive it is, even in its most efficient modes. And in all reality, how much can one really save on heating costs using fossil fuel? $3K maybe $4k in an old, leaky house? If saving money is the goal, work part- time at Homely Despot and buy oil (or propane, natural gas.... whatever you burn in your area and be done with it).

Brian ("Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to make the world's first bionic man. Steve Austin will be that man." yeah, and number one is 'The check is in the mail', number 2 is ' The doctor is on his way'.)

 

Nothing- it does not really kick in until closer to 60 yrs. of age. At 53, I rode a motorcycle from RI to Rye, NY and then Ocean Shores, Wa in 47 hrs. and 52 minutes Rye to Ocean
Shores in just under 48 hrs. not the entire trip). Now, in my early 60's I could shave some minutes off that time WITHOUT a motorcycle at all but on foot!

With a fresh cat. and a stove choked well down, the wood will pyrolyze rather than burn (like a cigarette) leaving the firebox coated with black, sticky creosote but everything above the combustor clean and with only a sprinkling of fly- ash inside.

Brian

 

Very informative thread, the creosote in firebox but clean flue on a cat stove answered a nagging question for me.
How does the 10 year warranty work on the blaze king stoves if the cats dont last any where near that?

 

I will add i have an 3000 dollar (more or less) stove collecting dust sitting here while my 800 dollar drolet is heating my house, go figure.

 

Gpsfool sounds like we need to hit that magic number before things start turning around. My wife thought I had that selective hearing thing, till work proved her wrong with lots of documentation on my hearing loss....

oldspark, just guessing that.the cat is considered a limited life piece of the stove (or some wording such as that) and is not covered like the rest of the stove under the warranty.

Can you share the brand/model of the stove that you aren't running, and tell reasons why, vs the Drolet?

 

From what I am reading online the warranty was on the cat, see it mentioned in a couple of places.
The stove I am not using story has been told a few times some years ago but I can give you the nutshell version.
PE Summit (non cat)
Had high flue temps and low stove top temps, been burning wood for over 30 years (only source of heat at that time) when I received the stove so not my first rodeo.
I asked so many questions they kicked me off Hearth more or less, side tracking too many threads.
Talked to PE and they had no idea, no bad welds (for leaks) any where I could see.
Used it for 2 miserable years and had enough so bought the Drolet at Menards and never regretted it.
PE stoves have a very good reputation so it might work somewhere else.

.

 

Thanks for the info oldspark.