Burning the 30NC, ups and downs

Some may remember my disappointment with my 30 when I moved to it from an old VC Defiant. Just never seemed to run right. Good wood, or better yet, great wood. Over 20 feet of straight vertical run with insulated pipe. It would burn wood, just woudn't stay real hot for long and provided much less heat than the VC. Tonight I am babysitting the stove as I try and burn off an oil coating (different thread, different issue). I popped 3 small hickory/locust splits in the stove around 7 pm. They burned fine and I dropped 2 more in around 9. The box is only about 30% full at that level. I have the door open which is right at the stove location, in order to assist in moving the stinky burned oil out of the basement. I got the stove top to 650 and the odor started to get a bit out of hand, so I dropped the air to minimum + 1/2 inch. Some 90 minutes later, the stove is holding at 650 with little to no flame visible. Has me wondering if the open door is the key to a better burn. I am really considering an OAK now. Make sense??

 

I have no experience with outside air kits. But, if you just now got your 30 to 650 after burning it all last winter, you definitely have a problem. The Big Ugly really begins to roll once it hits 650-750 stove top.

But, I will say, the old Defiant will put out more heat than a 30. The old Defiant was a huge stove. Bigger than the current Defiant I have. The modern Defiant and the 30 is more comparable to the old Vigilant. So, if you actually needed the heating capacity that the old Defiant offered, the 30 will not match that.

Hopefully you can get that stove sorted out better this winter to give you a better idea as to whether it is the stove you need. If you need something bigger, than the Blaze King King or the Regency 5100 might be your only other options unless you go with an add-on wood furnace/boiler or an outdoor burner.

 

Is there any way you can run a temporary OAK just to see how it responds?

 

I was able to get to high stove top temps without a big problem. Maintaining them over the course of hours was not so easy. I also replaced the Defiant with another, which sits in the on deck circle for when the temps really plunge. As far as a temp OAK goes, I don't see an easy resolve. I could hook up a pipe to the intake and send it out the open door, but my take on the burn last night was that maybe the open door was creating a different draft behavior, which in turn helped the burn. I may just pop a 2 1/2 inch hole in the wall and run a feed. Not hard to do or cover up if abandoned.

 

How many hours are you expecting 650-750 degree temps?

 

I only base that comment on how others have claimed burns. The stove has typically only peaked for an hour or so. Others claimed peak burns in 4-5 hour range. When there is a full load, I would expect a 3-4 hour peak burn in the 650 range. Reasonable? Last night the stove sat on 650 for 2 solid hours and it was barely loaded. I like that performance, and am trying to determine why it is behaving better.

 

On a full load, it's more 2-3 hours in the 650-750 range for the most part. Then 2-4 hours in the 500-650 range. The 2-3 hours in the 300-500 range. Than another hour or two in the 250-300 range.

From peak temp down to 250 degrees, on a full load, you can expect 7-12 hours.

 

My big girl ( nc 30) is having some breathing problems this fall. I will have to pull the OAK apart and clean it out this week end ( got a bunch of ceiling panels to get out of the way). Likely a ton of spider webs. Got to put a backflow damper in the hot water heater ( power vent) exhaust line as well.

 

here's a thought an "indirect oak" all it takes is some PVC 3" (since its not connected directly to the stove its code compliant)

what you do (in a permanent application) is to drill a 3 inch hole in the sill plate insert PVC through elbow down the wall and terminate inside a 5 gallon bucket with the pipe ending an inch or two off the bottom of the bucket. this will trap cold air coming in to the basement inside of the bucket allowing the negative pressure created by the draft to "drink" only what air it needs right off the top of the bucket allowing more to come in and be trapped in it (cold air sump)

this way you have controlled air entering instead of a cracked window which does not allow controlled amounts of air in.

best part, air stays cold in the sump so you can store a few brewski's in the bucket for enjoyment while tending to the stove

 

Welcome aboard Mike.

Question on the oak feed; wouldn't the cold air burn better? Direct feed instead of the bucket trick? I know the old muscle cars like the 50 degree temps much more than the 85s.

 

thanks Myway, good chatting with you again!

and yes, direct connect is the "best case" but the indirect is a cheap easy way to do it if a close proximity to the stove is not achievable (center chimney for example) and a cheap easy way using a removed glass pane replaced with a wooden"pane" to test the theory if ya wanted to without cutting any permanent holes.

was just offering as an alternative for not just you but others who may read this thread later on

 

Yep, welcome Mike. Nice to see you here.
So, would this setup work in a ground floor situation, and would it help mitigate other air infiltration?
The cold air stays in the bucket until it's drawn off for the stove, eh?
This could be a temp setup for me (and others) until I have a stove with OAK capability.

 

Hey Mike, glad to see you made it here. Enjoy, its a great place.

 

Still popping a hole so I am missing something. The oak on the NC 30 is primary air, through the dog house the secondary intake is located slightly further forward and slightly above primary, it is a small rectangle. If you have a very tight home then you need to fab a way to feed the secondary off the Oak as well. There are also 2 small intakes, front corners by legs for the air wash of the window. It sounds like you might have a bit of a negative pressure problem in the house in which case a OAK is definitely needed. Everyone mentions all the usual culprits( bath, laundry, kitchen venting) but sometimes those Radon dispersal systems are the culprit. Also with a 20 ft chimney ( basement install?) it takes a bit the get the flue hot. additionally temps above 40F make for some poorer draft conditions as well. The 30 does a pretty good job of slinging heat out and not sending it all up the flue. Also if you are running the blower on the 30 and measuring the temps off the top, they will be 2-300 deg. low as compared to blower off. Which brings up another minor point the blower on the back can rob air flow from the secondary intake, particularly when the blower is running at max. Last note: the 30 works the best 15% or less moisture wood, it will run with 20% the heat output is reduced. It is very difficult to describe the operational difference in that 5 point spread. It can be an eye opener. I can hear my 30 sucking air in if nothing else is making noise in the house.

 

yeah, it works well, but you need a vertical drop to make it work (kinda like a chimney in reverse) best thing about it is if you have other items in a tight basement (gas HW for instance) you could have "competing flues" between the B vent over the HW tank and the woodstove chimney, an indirect setup allows distribution to whatever is drawing down there while allowing some control over the air coming in. its pretty slick. i put one of these pvc setups in my dads basement when he was having issues getting his 3500 to pick up well from a cold start, made a big difference his issue started when he replumbed his clothes dryer vent (electric but still an air hog) when he put in a new dryer. the dang dryer would pull air out to the point his flue would stall so he couldn't get the woodstove to start clean if mom had done any laundry and the dryer was running. now, it doesn't matter if it is or not i located the vent setup about 8 ft from the stove itself and it worked literally from the first fire on.

just make sure you have a "critter screen' in place as its an open tube, if not you may find the occasional mouse in the bucket

 

Ok I see what is being stated. you can do something similar to the cold water line feed on the hot water heater, keeps from heating the whole cold water feed. ( a big loop down then back up to the cold water feed).

 

Wanted to update this thread. I have just gone through a few weeks of real winter here in NJ. A few nights in the teens with sub freezing temps and wind during the day. What I have found out is that the fan on the 30 is the answer to getting real heat. I have not had to do anything special with burns. No extra coal issues. Not doing anything other than raking, loading, closing the door and walking away. I do run the air a bit wider than when the fan is off. House is staying above 70. Real pleased. Now trying to sell the new-old Defiant I bought. All good.