Anyone with experience having their property logged?

Yes. Welcome. I did not realize you were brand new on the forum when I read your first post. Thanks for the comments. I am researching and thinking, and researching and thinking and.....

 

Not sure how much land you have but I'll share what we did.

We bought an 8.4 acre wood lot, mature cherry/ash/maple mostly. We were building on it and wanted about an acre cleared and to selectively harvest in the other 7 acres.

I met with 3 operations, 1 large multi-crew operation, 1 smaller team outfit, and a solo guy who is a forest ranger who logs with a skidder, does it on the side.

Large crew said wasn't worth it to them, small outfit said we could make around 1k but to clear the build site it would be close to break even.

The forest ranger walked the lot and gave an estimate of trees to take and approximated we could net 5k.

We went with the forest ranger. We ended up doing quite alot better than the 5k, he walked the lot marking trees with us, advising us not to take anything under 22" dbh trees so we could plan on a retirement harvest if we chose to. He cleared the build site, made minimal damage to surrounding trees, and kept his skid trails in a pattern we asked to facilitate us maintaining trails on the property. He groomed the trails with the skidder afterwards and piled most of the tops together for me. He took the time to make sure we clearly understood the different ways to scale logs etc. He even waited to cut a log until he asked us if we would rather play it safe or cut the log to take the chance it could make veneer.

If you want to maintain the look and feel of your wood lot it is definitely possible, it doesn't have to be a huge operation to come in. It will take 1 guy longer but impact can be minimal, and it can be done in a way to increase the overall health of the wood lot. Hope this helps.

 

I'm surprised anyone wanted to deal with 7 acres. Around here the landowner would be paying about $2-$4k an acre for it to be logged depending on location and how finished the lot needed to be.

Just hauling the bare min equipment in is going to be $1-2k in costs. Skidder, dozer, feller buncher, and delimber... all are oversize and heavy (like 70-100,000lbs) and normally we have 2 or 3 of each on a site just in case one breaks down or if there are extra people to stick in machines.

Basically it works out like that big tree leaning on a house and someone expecting to have it cut down for free since they are given the wood.

Most lots we work on are 100+ acres.

The guy I work with did a 40 acre job last summer, finishing it now (had to dig out the stumps) and the landowner paid around $1000 an acre, but that was because it's literally 400 ft from the shop and they trade off parts/labor, etc.
That 40k paid for fuel and MAYBE $10/hr labor, if that.

 

That's exactly why the bigger operations wouldn't have had much return for us. He owns all his own equipment so not much overhead to cover.

He didn't have a delimber or feller buncher, just a small dozer, log loader, a dump truck, and a couple chainsaws. He made probably around 5k in 5 weeks (busts his tail on off days, saves off time for logging jobs) plus the firewood he paid for.

 

It's not so surprising if you look at it in context.. Seems like the guy who did the work for dutch didn't NEED to do the work. More like he wanted to do it and enjoyed it. That said, probably had another source of healthcare. May have owned his equipment outright and didn't have to carry as big of an insurance policy and could work at his own pace.. People still log with draft horses in New England and can make a decent living doing it. Much easier on the land and less stress on the land owner who has authorized an irreversible change to his/her land. If you've got payments on trucks, equipment, shop and healthcare you need to work hard just to break even which drives big operators to only want to do large lots pulling off as much product as possible...

 

Repeated this in case it was missed before.

While walking the property it seemed as if with the size of the trees on my lot and the quality that a good portion of them would be chipped. Not too many big trees on the lot. All Pine/Spruce planted in late 60's, hardwoods came in naturally. But from what I see many of the trees grew slow because of competition.

 

Yes. I do get the feeling that quantity is where it is important for them. They do seem like good people though. Not saying anything negative about them. But with all the overhead/insurance/health insurance/etc. you need to be making a profit. Business is business.

 

I did miss that one! Not sure how, sounds like a much different situation than our lot which is mostly hardwoods.

 

I grew up in Maine in a logging and agriculture area ("the county") and it's not much different than where I live now.... still do logging, and plenty of farming too.

The equipment isn't costing money to sit parked is the way I look at it. (well unless you are paying on it, but we don't play that game if possible). I can sit at home and do nothing and some days I'd be better off.. have worked for a loss before and it's no fun! Sure there is to a degree the love of the work and satisfaction, but at the end of the day, the lights need to be get on, fuel needs to be bought, supper needs to go on the table.
Some people don't realize running 3-4 pieces of equipment can easily burn $750-$1000 of fuel a day. Most tanks are 60-100 gals and are good for 10-12 hrs of run time.

I'm not posting that info to belittle anyone or talk like "I'm too good", but really just the reality of it. I cleared about 2 acres this summer, hand felling and used an ATV to skid. It was profitable for me since I had minimal into it and the wood was free. In no way shape or form would I have done the work if I had to PAY for the wood.

 

I wonder if I should find a good Amish man close enough that would log with his horses?

Or do it myself a little at a time with my tractor and truck to get more of the value of the wood into my pocket and end up with my woods the way I want it to look?
(This means a lot more work for me though. It is work I enjoy doing. But wife does not want me to work all the time. So the money from the trees would come in slowly and a little at a time.)

 

Nate, I was simply addressing this comment. I added the emphasis to anyone. This guy didn't rely on his logging income to put food on the table.. The fact that he was able to make a small operation profitable for himself and for dutch is impressive.

A lot depends on the economy and the quality of the product. If you walked on to a 5 acre lot with all 24"+ Red Oak and Black Walnut peelers, I'd bet you could find a way to pay the land owner and make it profitable for both of you. On the other hand if it's all pulp being sold by the ton, like you said, you'd lose money..

 

Does most smaller Pine and Ash just get chipped where you guys are?

 

I don't know about the ash since we only selectively harvested the biggest trees on the lot. The pine he took for pulpwood, which we made minimal on and he made just enough to have it be worth his while.

 

If it's small, the pine would be chips and the ash could be chips, pallet wood or firewood. According to the chart in the NYDEC link, ash sawlogs get an average of $150 per MFB. But if you don't have a good local market for it and can't fill a truck with homogeneous product(i.e. all hardwood sawlogs), it'll probably go to a low grade use..

 

But doing it yourself you would need to bring out a truck load to get paid at all, which is roughly 8 cords and a lot of work. So you would be getting paid in installments.

 

We had a 10 acre lot opened up years ago for an airstrip. All small pines, alder, small birch, spruce. They did all the cutting in 2 days! Small harvester on tracks zipped off the trees and carried to multiple areas, another tracked rig with a claw carried to an area for chipping. They took some right behind our house. Rolled across our back lawn carrying a tree... could hardly tell they were there when they finished. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes... so, I know it can be done with minimal mess. We knew the owner of this outfit and I think their op was not the norm. If you got lucky Gas, maybe there's an outfit like this out where you are. Maybe, the one you're talking about? As has been said... your local forester should know.

 

Take a look at this stumpage report from last winter in New York State. This is what I was looking at before he came to walk my property with me.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/spr2014winter.pdf

Average price for White Pine $75-$225/1000 board feet. Median of $100.

Average price for White Ash $90-$325/1000 board feet. Median of $150.

The logger basically said that those are prices you would get at the mill if you were to bring it to them. He has to harvest it and bring it there. He is suppose to put together a proposal for me and send it in e-mail. Basically he said he would pay for the surveyor, and all material taken off the land would be weighed on a scale at their facility in Massena or the energy facility at Fort Drum. I would get paid per ton for the chipped stuff and more for any logs taken.

 

We just wanted the lot opened up and were happy to not pay anything to have it done. We would have done things differently, prolly, if we were after $, but then, the trees weren't worth much.

 

Uhhhhh... "Stumpage" means on the stump... Anything beyond that is value added. Cutting, limbing, bucking, skidding and trucking to the mill/chip plant. Ask that logger again for the definition of stumpage.. He might be trying to pull a fast one on you. Of course, you'd also have to know what the minimum size top is for a saw log. Some places will go down to 8 inches diameter inside the bark others maybe down to 12. Depends on the market..

http://agebb.missouri.edu/agforest/archives/v15n3/gh5.htm

Forestry 101: Stumpage vs Mill Delivered Price
Hank Stelzer, MU Forestry Extension
What does the phrase "stumpage price" mean to you? Most landowners have heard the words "stumpage value" or "stumpage price" but probably are not certain what the words mean to them. Basically, a timber buyer will offer landowners a price for trees standing "on the stump." Webster's Dictionary defines stumpage as "standing timber with reference to its value," or "the value of such timber."

 

Ya. I didn't really show it to him, he just kinda tried to look at it when I was quoting some prices I was reading off of it. I don't think he really knew what report I was looking at for sure. I am doing some reference calling of people I know who have used them. I have heard nothing but good about them. Honest people. But they are in business to make money. Period.

I am now researching the 480A Forest Tax Law that New York State has. Reduces your taxes if you do x,y,z.........
I am looking into the N.Y.S. Forest Stewardship Program. Will pay you x amount of dollars per acre (not a lot) but some money to help you out with work you do to if you do x,y,z........ (might cover the fuel you use to thin woods and/or cut trails)

I am also going to strongly consider hiring a Consultant Forester. Even though I don't want to spend the money, it will come back to me plenty if the Forester is working for me.