Alaska and the EPA regarding wood burning

Now there is a good point, making people buy a EPA stove wont necessarily make them any smarter although trying to burn green wood in a EPA stove might teach them something.

 

I totally agree. Old Spark, I hope you realize that I was not accusing you of calling myself or any one else stupid. That is not what I meant even though it may have sounded that way. I am 1 of those folks who some times has a knee jerk reaction any time I hear about government intervention in our lives when said intervention affects us all because of a few.

 

Back in the 80's we had a local farm elevator that sprayed chemicals for farmers. They had someone come in over night, remove a camloc cap from a tank and turn the valve on. All the 28% nitrogen fertilizer leaked out int a ditch. Killed minnows and burned the grass on the edges. Next morning they got what they could but most of it was gone. EPA came in and all they did was fine them for the fish kill. Before diking regs and they were in compliance with everything at the time. Bad enough they were out the cost of product and cleanup but the EPA treated them as the criminal when someone else did this on purpose. Never went after them, just put a fine on a local business that was already hurting. The stupid ditch dried up every year and the "fish" died then too. Do the fine mother nature? God? Sabitage should not be a finable offense to me but anything to fill the coffers I guess.

The ones I dealt with at the time NEVER had solving the problem on their minds. It was how can we control more and branch further out. Much like county building codes have gotten. It gets to the point where you do one thing and have to call. Doing my garage I had to have a pressure test on the floor pex in the cement. First they demanded 60 PSI on the lines and had to get the manufacturer to say no. Then had it set up and they were supposed to stay 30 minutes for leakdown test. I had it with 10psi and my guage when he arrived. He looked, twidled his thumbs and 5 minutes later he left. I could have had a stuck guage on their as he never checked or bled anything. It's just about $ now.

 

Most people are good!!!!!

Most people will do the right thing if they are informed. I don't like the commonly used term educated you can be educated in one way or another....

The media and parts of society have trained people to HATE/attack/ other people if they dont see eye to eye.
An example is you are a climate denier you hate the earth lol......It in my opinion goes much further and into other facets of life.....

If the media did their job, society could blacklist companies that pollute wrongfully. If society cared enough to do so.
What's silly is people hold the EPA as a know all see all(cuz the government said so), they never look to see or mention or talk about the wrong unaccounted things they do.


# libertarian-ish #live let live#limited gov

 

As long as we keep packing more and more people on the planet needing clean air to breathe and clean water to drink we are going to need regulatory agencies to maintain that clean air.
Cut back on the hordes of peoples and cut back on the need for regulatory agencies.
Pretty simple concept.

In the meantime it would behoove us all to continue to obligate a few engineers to come up with ways to facilitate maintaining that clean air and water.

 

Calling the Great Gazoo ... his invention should do the trick!

 

Now wasn't it the epa that only a year or so ago released a buttload of chemicals from some sort of holding pond from a Colorado mine? And the after an "investigation" reassured the public that there was no harm done and the river affected had already started to wash away all the bad toxins? Yeah, right.

Another case of don't do as I do, do as I say.

And they're worried about smoke from wood fires?

 

Not trying to be the EPA fanboy in this thread, just making sure the facts are straight. This is straight out of the EPA strategic plan I linked earlier:

"EDUCATION AND OUTREACH Wood smoke education is an important part of reducing PM2.5 in your community. Engaging the public and giving them the tools to make informed decisions about what they burn and how they burn is the first step in an overall wood smoke reduction plan. With proper burning techniques and well-seasoned wood, emissions (even in older wood-burning appliances) can be significantly reduced. While a new wood stove, hydronic heater, or wood-burning fireplace will typically pollute less than older appliances when used properly, it is important to emphasize that how a user operates their appliance is equally important in maximizing energy efficiency and reducing emissions. "

So the EPA is looking into educating in this instance and they actually have an entire section on just education.

 

You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
I've heard of folks around here who still burn pretty much everything and anything in a firepit......plastic wrap, plastic bottles, old beds, whatever.
How do you fix that? Regulations won't do it. They're already in place. Obviously, common sense doesn't come into play in that scenario.
It takes a LOT more effort (time, money) to put up firewood well in advance of when you actually need to burn it, than to just get it as needed.
Not a fan of regs, but also not a fan of the result of burning plastic in a firepit either.
Just some observations............and REALLY glad I don't live in Beijing.....or Detroit, for that matter.

 

Witness how laws are made today:

Texas lawmaker shot in head on New Year’s Eve plans bill to combat ‘celebratory gunfire’

 

I still lean towards what I was saying before. We somehow have to change the way we think. Government, ei: EPA, politicians,... society in general, wood burners specifically. I think those of us that come to a site like this enjoy the comradery and the chance to learn and share experiences. We care what we are doing. Last week I start talking with a guy in my store. He bought an outdoor wood furnace. I start talking with him about how I season my wood and how clean I can burn it. This guy doesn't care. His smoke just blows over the lake and effects no one. He throws in cut up tires that'll burn for ever almost and brags about it. What to do with thinking like this? Can I educate someone like this? He doesn't want to hear about clean burning. So, I fully understand that we need agencies like the EPA but the over reach many agencies take is simply wrong. So how does the EPA approach someone like me and then this guy? Wouldn't it make more sense to encourage the person doing a good job and find a way to disincentivize bad behavior, or incentivize better behavior? How about a new executive branch with a cabinet seat that is an over reaching agency to hover over all the other agencies and lets call it the Department of Common Sense.

 

That department is doomed from the start. No cute little rule book to tell you that you are always going to be wrong doing anything you do. I am fairly careful how I conduct myself but I am sure I must break at least 20 laws every day unless I stay in bed. Even then there may be a law making it illegal to stay in bed.

 

You can only stay in bed during a stage two work ban. You must apply for food stamps and medicade. Also there will be random check points at yout front door to make sure you arent going to do any work.

Did that guy really say he burns tires? I wonder though is that like burning oil?.

I think we should all send a copy of the three year plan to the powers that be and anyone that follows it is exempt from income tax.

 

Now there's a plan I could endorse.

 

We have to learn to separate legalities from what is right or wrong. I believe it is wrong for me to cause harmful smoke to drift beyond my property, if I can avoid it. And it is wrong for the EPA to regulate stoves. My responsibility is to pollute as little as I reasonably can, and how I accomplish that is my business.

 

They are constantly being paid off by corporations as well....GE....

Yes! It's called "personal responsibility"! Nanny states try to take it away. It's also cultural.
The last thing we need is another agency....

 

Lots more of this going on than many people realize, and most of it is legal (wrong, but legal). Of course it is legal, those writing the laws benefit from it.

 

They are constantly being paid off, often times in the form of fines. That is one of the most disgusting parts is they will fine then walk away and say ok we are done here and the actual problem was not solved.

Unfortunatly in our very litigious county there is very little personal responsibility left in a lot of people. Just look at some of the rediculous warnings on stuff. Warning dont use this electrical appliance in the shower? Warning your wood burning stove will be hot to the touch? Who needs these warnings? But someone hurt themselves and instead of admiting gee that was stupid they sued.

The family of a man who died using a VIDEO calling program while DRIVING is suing because the maker of the video calling software did not warn him he might be distracted while DRIVING during a VIDEO phone call.

 

Now there is a problem, you are using yourself as an example and you are a responsible human being but their are a lot of clowns out there.
I think I am guilty of the same thing (especially when I was younger) and now I realize that you just can't fix stupid.