Alaska and the EPA regarding wood burning

May I inquire as to why? Is it waiting for the old stove to "crap" out?

 

My problem with agencies like the EPA, and all gov. agencies, is that they simply dwell on regulations. If they stop regulating they stop working thus there would be no need for them. I think all of us citizens need to push forward the thought to all civil servants from elected politicians to our local police, fire and teacher workers that civil service is for the benefit of the citizens. They're job is to work for us, not against us. Far too many have forgot this. Some of the best people in our country are civil servants and we need to honor that. My experience with these people are mostly business related, sewer, fire, and health dept. Most of them are very good and knowledgeable but there is way too much room for their own interpretations for what they insist has to be done. I couldn't count all the times I've had to correct issues. I just had to install a new grease interceptor and it took me every bit of six months to get all the different departments to agree as to what I needed to do. I would get one answer that would conflict with another agency and the whole process starts over again. I'm not sure how this can or could be fixed. I'm sure the same thing is happening with wood burning and how to address the pollution side of it. I don't like the gov. telling me what to and not to do, but I also don't like the air filled with smoke from someone that doesn't care. I'll just think for a minute as I write this: Money seems to be the biggest motivator to get people to do something. Even those with good intentions. Try not compensating someone for a job well done and see if there will be a next time. I have an EPA burner and I think they are great. A no brainier. My wood consumption has dropped far less than half what it use to be. That alone is worth a lot. I miss the smell of a little wood burning in the air but I can live with that. How to get someone to switch over to a better burner? Maybe a graduated fine so that it makes more sense to switch than to keep being harassed and fined. The gov. shouldn't step in with full force unless there is a danger to someone and those guide lines have to be spelled out clearly to be understood. I go back to my original thought that there has to be a better foundation for our entire society to be built on. We can't very well live without these people. Yet we need to be able to live with them too. Hope I didn't over step any "boundaries" in this discussion. Above wood burning as a hobby is my interest in sociology.

 

Long story that is well documented here and on Hearth, did not work worth a crap, high flue temps and low stove top temps so heating my house (only source of heat) was a challenge but I did that for two years even replaced the chimney and it made no difference. I have burnt wood a long long time so I know when something is not right but all the "know it alls" gave me no credit for knowing any thing.
Bought a 700 dollar Drolet that works like a champ, the Nashua is in my shop in use and after over 30 years still kicks Ash.
My first mistake was taking advice from people who really dont know what they are talking about in the first place as I would have never bought a new stove in the first place. I still see posts from people who say the old stoves were junk and that is far from the truth for many many of those stoves, burn dry wood and they work great.
Edit- I asked so many questions on Hearth they kicked me off with no warning.

 

We all need clean air to breathe and we also know that many corporations would not care about how bad they polluted the air as long as the money is rolling in. The EPA was needed and it was put in place by Nixon and began operating on December 2, 1970. We have all benefited by the EPA by having cleaner air and water. My friend in NJ worked for several companies and he would tell me how they would dump washing-up liquid into the Hudson River. The company would have spotters so if the river started foaming, they would dump a chemical into the river to break down the foam. The Hudson River was almost a cesspool at one time; today is a different story. Now it may be true that some of the regulations are excessive; I won't argue for or against that. However, we know that some are politically motivated about destroying the EPA because of greed; not excessive regulations. Putting equipment on smoke stacks to remove the particulates; and those particulates does contain toxic metals, costs money both in buying the equipment and in operating that equipment and in creating storage facilities. We only need to look towards Beijing to see the consequences of burning dirty coal without such clear air measures in place. Here is a little fact you may not know, the major source of mercury in fish is caused by the burning of dirty coal in China.

When we live in a society, our actions may have consequences towards others that we must keep in mind. Let's look at leaf burning; something that I would like to see banned. Since I live in a rural area, many will rake piles of leaves and burn them. The leaves smolder for hours producing a very arid smoke and I have seen this smoke fill an entire neighbourhood. Trying to breathe this smoke laden air is horrible and if one is suffering from asthma or other lung diseases it could mean a trip to hospital. Years ago my brother-in-law installed a wood stove with a force air heat exchanger in the basement of his home. He suffered from lung illness and eventually had to remove the stove since even a small amount of smoke in the house made it difficult for him to breathe. The article in question talked about a temporary inversion that may temporary fill a neighbourhood with smoke; what the article tried to indicate was that it was not that big of a deal. However; if you live in that neighbourhood, it may be a very big deal if it caused someone a trip to hospital. Living in a community and not isolated in the middle of the Alaska outback, we need to be mindful of how our wood burning is affecting others; it is part of being a good neighbour. I could have brought an older non-epa stove for a lot less but I am glad that I did not. Of course as it has been stated, a non epa stove can burn clean; normal combustion produces CO2 and water vapour when the oxygen level is proper. I have no problem with a waste burning facility located in a city some 40 miles away because the furnace is a high temperature incinerator and what is coming out of the stack is harmless; outside of the greenhouse gas emissions but that is really moot at this point.

 

Yes, I remember now; I saw some of the posts where you mentioned it. That stove was clearly poorly designed. It is a shame that it is basically money lost, even the scrap value is almost worthless; last I looked around 3 cents per pound. Might be a project to see if the design flaw could be corrected.

 

You sorrta contradicted yourself there, if you know with proper burning practices they burn clean (as you stated) why would you avoid an older stove?

 

I wish I had a place to set it up and do some experiments but for now it sits there.
Not a poor design as many are happy with the same stove but it did not work for me.

 

I think the biggest problem is those burning green wood; so education might be the answer rather than fines at the public level.

 

Then your stove must have been defective. Something could have been left out or not welded in the correct place. Others can not be getting good heat output and you not with the exact same stove built in the exact same manner. I would have pushed for a replacement stove from the manufacture; especially if the stove is a few grand in price.

 

Not gonna happen as I spent at least an hour on the phone with them, went over the stove with a fine tooth comb and everything was there, cant begin to tell you how much time I spent on research and came up with nothing.
Not being a smart ash but this was not my first rodeo.
Edit- The dealer bailed on me and the maker just wrote me off.

 

Interesting thread.
Regs, shmegs I say. Why do those of us who live in the "Home of the brave and land of the Free" have to be held under the yoke of a gubbermint agency that has free domain to do and regulate as they please unencumbered by the very ideals of Democracy? Especially since a very large part of the inhabitants of this planet do not have to abide by the same rules and regulations. It is kind of like posting a No Peeing zone sign in a swimming pool aint it? This all sounds like just more global warming B.S. to me. But then all the facts must be true right? Ya all read it on the internet so it has to be. I had Chinese take out for supper last night and I can assure you that I have been putting a huge hole in the ozone and messing up every one around me's breathing air all day long.

 

Well you may have topped it with yours but one of your questions is easily answered, why do we have regulations-drum roll please- because people are stupid that's why and they ruin it for all.
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Holy Sheet, wheres the Tylenol.

 

I have an OWB to heat my home and hot water. It is a very small one, but gets the job done in the climate I live in. We did rush to get our boiler before the epa regulations kicked in that would force us to buy a gasifier. At the time of our purchase we could have purchased 2 pre gasifier boilers and still could not have afforded the cheapest compliant boiler..... money is an issue for many many wood burners.
I live in a rural area and try to burn dry wood and produce very little smoke. I have been forced to burn some green wood also. The green smoked a bit, but there was no damage to my boiler.
I do believe the EPA is needed, but the reach of that particular agency needs to be trimmed down significantly.

 

Being too lazy to gooble it, and would rather hear from a fellow hoarder, what is a hybrid stove and how does it operate? I will be looking for a wood stove in a few years if we ever get to building our attached dream barn (barn looking great room) it will go in there.

 

EPA stoves have either a secondary air inlet or a catalytic combustor.
Hybrids have both. Making them extremely efficient/clean burning !
Woodstock Soapstone company won the EPA Challenge with the Ideal Steel wood stove

Wood Stove Decathlon Big Winners Revealed

 

Sorry, dont buy that x plain ation for a minute. Acording to your logic, you, and I and everyone reading this are stupid. I take some serious offence to be lumped into the stupid pool as should lots of others. When those who do not wish to understand that which they dont want to get confused they some times try to confuse the issue with to much B.S. such as I do.
But then we are back to the origonal post. To much smoke in the air huh?

 

Let's try the actual regulation. It is illegal, as of 3 days ago, to sell or install a non-compliant appliance but it is not illegal to use one. If you have one in good working order you can use it forever. There is no regulation requiring that you backfit with an EPA stove for a very good reason. Requiring someone to remove a functional stove to replace it with a new design amounts to arbitrary confiscation in my mind. That would be depriving me of property without due process of law, which is illegal under the US constitution. Until that changes the EPA can just go pound sand.

 

I could be wrong but what I think he was getting at is a lot of rules are put into place due to someone making a stupid mistake ie. New gun laws enacted because people keep shooting other people, the theory being if people never shot other people there would be very few gun laws. I dont think he was calling us all stupid.

While they can not make you replace or remove your non EPA compliant stove, They are allowed to tell you that you can not use it by initiating a stage one burn ban. Of course you can be exempted if it is your only source of heat, but most homes still have another HVAC system in place and I do not think being out of fuel counts as exemption. Please note that not all states/counties have ordinance in place yet. EPA can put sanctions on states/counties if they do not enact ordinance when air quality is poor.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/strategies.pdf

 

Ok it was a joke not ment to be taken literally, I guess we all have to be politically correct any more.
Is this better, some people are stupid and some people due stupid things at one time or another.
Many of our regulations come from people not being safe causing injury to themselves or others and the government thinks they can protect us from ourselves so new regulations are put into place.
I am sure you have seen the pictures of some of the chimneys from people burning green wood, if I had a backyard full of smoke I would not be happy.

 

Thank You!