Absolute Steel Owners, Please Help Me Learn How To Run This damm Thing!

It helps to remember that in the old days, the only air control for the stove was the pipe damper. It is capable of slowing the fire just as much as the intake control. Adding a key damper to a stove with air controls gives you two methods to do the same thing which is reduce air flow through the stove.

In modern days, the key damper allows you to either reduce the chimney draft to a level close to what the stove designers expected so that the regular intake controls work properly or the key damper allows you to override the stove’s intake controls for a lower burn rate than the stove designers intended.

 

Nothing at all wrong with remembering that and you are spot on, but until you mentioned it most of the younger generation wouldn’t remember it it or have known about it. Certainly worth mentioning. Only problem is that I doubt it’s mentioned or explained like that (good job) at all in nearly every stove manual available. It should be.

The only issue I have is confusing some of the younger generation when many stove manufacturers not only don’t mention or explain it as you did, they in fact...don’t want you to install a pipe damper, which I’ve always thought was crazy.

I wasn’t trying to say anyone was wrong so I hope it didn’t get portrayed that way. Sometimes we have to break steps down into more digestible steps. That’s ok.

Good post, Highbeam!

 

I've been working with Chris on his issues with his AS in his installation. We're making some good progress, one burn at a time he's starting to get consistent burns, and typical STT temps. Also talking to Woodstock to get their suggestions, they have been helpful too.

He does have a very strong draft, also has a small leak at the glass in one of the corners. He's snugged the acorn nuts but we don't really know if that actually helps but the nuts were somewhat loose. But no smells and no puffing with the process he's at now.

I'll let him tell you the details, and we're still in tweak mode but now only making one change at a time, documenting and then testing. It takes time as it really is one burn at a time.

 

So as Oldhippie said, I was careful but I snugged up the acorn nuts on all four corners of the glass, and they all could be tightened with not a lot of force. I checked for air leaks around the gaskets twice now with stove running with an incense stick and found no evidence of air leak. I called Woodstock today and talked to Ben to make sure snugging up those acorn nuts was okay because Hoytman suggested it. Ben said that was okay. I’m hoping those being loose were part of the problem but time will tell.

I am keeping a journal. I have been starting up at a lower setting (3) on the air damper per Ben at Woodstock’s suggestion. The following is with key damper open.

Last night, cold start with just enough coals to get kindling going. Added 3 small splits and 2 medium pieces.

Temps peaked at 275 pipe and 475 STT. A little backpuffing coming out of CAT mode. Might have closed air down too soon? Didn’t seem to be overburning.

Reloaded 3 hours and 15 minutes later. Air setting 3. Let temp get to 400 (STT) before closing air more. Closed air in steps. At air 1.5 it came out of CAT mode and may have been racing some, closed air to half way between 0 and 1. Never came out of CAT mode completely. Period of gases igniting filling up the firebox and going back to black with mild “whooshing”. No smoke coming out of stove with that. Peak temps pipe 310 and STT 550.

I think I’m going tonight to try and close the air control down sooner being careful not to stall CAT (similar methods).

 

Still waiting for my Condar cat probe. Should be here Monday.

 

The reload last night was not on much wood. Not even half full firebox.

 

Nope. Maybe I screwed it all up tonight but I reloaded. Air at 3. Engaged damper a little sooner. Seemed to stall CAT. Opened it back up. Reengaged CAT. Air to 1.5, then eventually 0.5. Came out of CAT mode easy. No “whooshing” . But secondaries racing. Had to engage damper completely. No matter what I do it seems I end up engaging key damper completely. And I seem to get a smell when I engage it completely.

 

Okay. I’m keeping a detailed journal like Oldhippie suggested. In trying to control one variable at at time, but last night got off track.

I know some of you have suggested that something is wrong with the stove or the chimney, and those things are definitely possible. But, the chimney has a brand new preinsulated 6 inch liner this summer. The stove was taken by Woodstock, repaired, new gaskets, new paint, etc. then brought back by Woodstock this summer. I’ve checked for leaks and haven’t found anything yet. Tightening those acorn nuts on the front didn’t really seem to make any difference.

The most likely possibility (though I admit it could be other things and I don’t know what I’m talking about) is that I have a very strong draft. And the only way to truly know I guess is to measure it with a manometer, which I don’t yet have.

This morning, my goal was to try to bring the stove up to temp in order to engage the cat more gently and gradual. I think what may be happening, is because of the strong draft, I build a rip roaring fire up to the point where I engage the cat. So, I had the air at 3, once I loaded all my wood in, I turned the key damper to about 45 degree angle and left it there for the whole burn. I had about a half full fire box. Pipe temp rose to 360 and STT temp to 520 and they both stayed there for a while. Stayed in cat mode for pretty much whole burn. Didn’t get to see if secondaries were racing because didn’t really come out of cat mode.

 

Please define "come out of cat mode" ? Once you get the stove hot enough to engage the cat it generally stays engaged until your fuel is used up or your indoor temp has dropped far enough to require reloading. Right?

 

What I mean by that is it’s a black box. No visible flames or secondaries. The cat is still working. It just never came back to steady visual flames or secondaries other than waves of gases lighting up the firebox and going out for a second or two.

 

Standard Cat stove low burn rate. Gotcha!

 

Sorry. I’ve gotta learn the correct terms.

 

It’s life “surf bum” but for fly fishermen.

 

Nice to meet you too Wildwest.

 

Your terminology is as good as anyone's. Looking forward to hearing you have this stove figured out. Keep us posted.

 

In answering your pm I did not mean for it to sound as if you need a manometer. I meant that they are used to monitor draft and can also help determine any drafting issues. It can tell you how strong your draft is, how weak it is, how the stove drafts as the stove is cruising.

If you can build a large fire in the stove with CAT disengaged, or one big enough to engage the CAT, then you do not need a manometer other than to monitor the draft when the stove is running, only then if you want. Right now I personally think that will further confuse you.

If you can have a large fire and high pipe temps before CAT engagement then your chimney drafts just fine and should allow a CAT to function just fine.

I thought early in this thread, maybe I am mistaken, you said your stove had a problem and had to be fixed. I thought you said it was leaking air and possibly over firing...or something like that. I also thought you said you sent it to WS for repairs. I also thought you said you were still thinking the stove had an issue. I could be mistaken on all of that and may need to go back and read the thread again.

If the stove doesn’t have an issue, it sounds like your chimney is good, there can only be two problems...a bad CAT or operator error. I am still leaning towards operator error and confusion. However, you have made at least some progress so I am confident that if you keep trying and with these guys help you will get this dialed in. If not, there is either an operator issue or a stove issue.

Hang in there. We all want to see you succeed.

 

Sounds right to me.

 

Yeah my understanding of it all is that is pretty standard on a cat stove, unless its really cold out and you have the air intake adjusted higher for more heat...falling out of cat mode to me would mean that the cat itself quits glowing...not sure where you can see it from, but I know I have read somewhere here that there is a way to physically see what the cat is doing.
And just to be clear, "black box" is only after the cat is active and things have been turned down to where they need to be for the duration...

 

Just to add another nugget to chew on. A active, fully functioning Cat need not glow or be orange. The glow often happens in the early part of a burn cycle but not for the entire burn. More trivia!