All things Woodstock Soapstone Absolute Steel

If that cat is glowing orange, and you are seeing a reading of under 1000, I'm thinking my theory that 8" is too long may be right. On the other stoves, on a glowing cat, I'm seeing 1100-1500 degrees. The probe on the Buck is 6", Dutchwest is 2". I think the IS is 4". Would be interesting to hear what readings the IS guys with the Woodstock or Condar probe, or others that have a digital probe, are seeing on a glowing cat. IIRC, I've seen readings well over 1000 posted for the IS cat, maybe some 1500s.

 

Okay, well that is a good start, Ill try to do that test tomorrow after I stop celebrating the Pats Superbowl win!

 

Okay I finally got down there when the CAT was fully bright orange, but as soon as I opened the cover and the light hit the cat the orange glow disappeared. But be assured that the cat was glowing when I took these pics.

1100'F on the Condar,
475'F on the top plate above the cat
330'f on the single wall pipe.

 

Thanks, Oldhippie! 1100 is more what I would expect from a glowing cat. I swapped my two probes in today; With the cat glowing medium, the 9" was showing 700, the 8" was 800. Now, it does look like your probe extends a good inch over the cat, so the effective transmission distance may be reduced to about 7", and maybe that's enough to raise the temp on the dial a bit, vs. my 9" extending an inch over, from the back. I guess it is also possible that how the probes are situated could have something to do with it; Yours exits the side of the stove, mine extends straight back, in the exhaust stream for the full length of the probe....hell, I dunno.
Still, I think on the IS, with the 4" probe, they can see temps pushing 1500. Not sure how brightly their cats may be blazing to get those readings?
The 9" probe I have is the new style, with the face like yours. The 8" is the old style that looks like this. I think it was Todd that mentioned that they might have re-calibrated, since the numbers are in different positions on the face. I suppose that could account for a the 100-degree difference I'm seeing, but I think it's more likely to be due the length...

I've lifted the lid on a Fireview a few times, but barely enough to peek in there...not real far.

 

Hello! New guy here. Not new to wood burning, but new to this forum.

It is my intention to buy a new Absolute Steel this spring/summer, to replace an old Security Chimneys BIS zero-clearance unit. The hearth will need to be redone, but there is plenty of room for the new stove, and I should be able to use most of the existing chimney (Security Chimneys ASHT).

One question I have is regarding the view of the fire. I love to watch the fire, so a clear view of it is important to me (and the wife). What I haven't seen are lots of images of a nice rolling fire inside an AS. I see lots of images of a glowing cat, some secondaries, and a dark/sooty window. Does the AS have a decent fire show when it's not cranked down?

Thanks!

 

The color of a material that is radiating light (incandescence) is directly linked to that material's temperature. So any cat. (or anything else basically) that is 'glowing' medium- red is a very specific temperature and that is not related to it being part of a woodstove or anything else. So just looking at a cat. you can judge the temperature by comparing the cat.s color to a color chart.



OK, the photo is not showing up. This link will work:

temperature color chart - Google Search:

The words used to describe the color are of course arbitrary and have no scientific meaning but the color- to- temperature link IS because of physics and is a constant.

Another thing that happens is that when something becomes incandescent (meaning it is 'glowing' with light visible to the naked (Easy Boys!) human eye) is that it is radiating a lot of energy. We are sensitive to infrared light, especially our eyes and our faces, so looking at anything that is past red in color becomes uncomfortable. I have had a ceramic cat get all the way to yellow (not in a Woodstock stove) and it was about impossible to look directly at it..... kinda' like Medusa's head I guess, I would have to use my polished (Boys!) shield or suffer the results

The above chart can be used to test or judge the accuracy of a thermometer or thermocouple. By the way, the end of the temp. measuring device should be 'soaked' at the temp. of the cat. and actually be the same color as the cat. is.

Brian

 

Also very hard to get an angle on taking a pic of it, as the hoodscoop obstructs the view. I did take another set of readings and pics and will post them shortly.

 

Qyota Due to the way I use the stove, sole heat source in a small energy efficient house and a a relativity warm winter.
on a scale of 1 - 10, 1 being no flame observed. I give the stove a 3 for flame viewing.
Others may have a better rating but this has not been the stove's best feature for me (the fact that I have used the stove as my only heat source and just now burned 1 cord is it's best attribute)
But back to your question.... I can razor blade the glass off and by the end of the next burn cycle it is smoked. But... to get the load engaged and charred quickly I allow the door to remain open a bit for 15 minutes. this interrupts the built in design for the air washing the glass. So take my rating for what it is worth. If the damper control allowed enough air to get a load going quickly this would not be necessary. but as it is it would take 45 minutes to an hour to get a reload going without the door gaped for 15 minutes or so.
I then close the loading door, leave it on full damper for 15 or so. (depending on how big of a load I needed and how cool the stove had got to. then when STT thermometer is almost to the 'go for it' silver area the by-pass is closed, then you can get a 3-5 minutes worth secondary burn show and then it all goes black and it puts out 8-10 hours of great heat and then we start all over again on next reload. reengaging the cat of course is relative to how cold you let the stove get.
I have ordered the cat probe from Woodstove to see if I can better evaluate when the cat is doing it's thing. I have not been able to tell much by using a STT thermo that came with the stove due to the decorations being in the way as Oldhippie has described. And having double wall stove pipe going straight up seems no way to tell what the cat is doing (see previous post by the experts).
If I am doing something wrong then I can't tell it as far as getting a reload up and running again on the catalytic burn mode.
Sorry for qualifying my answer so much, It is that I think it is a great heating appliance. not much of a show stopper or a mood setter though.

 

Qyota I do not have AS.. but an IS, have seen the AS.. so I will answer an hope Oldhippie can clarify..

First warm welcome! my wife also enjoys watching the fire roll.. the stove is more efficient just shut down to a dark box.. however, when wife wants her glass of wine before bed.. I open air intake to half.. plenty of flames.. for 2 to 3 hours.. re-fill stove and shut it down and go to bed..
in my mind best of both worlds flame show when you want it or need heat and on an IS easy 8 to 12 hour burns.. with STT at end still in 300 range.. so do I burn an extra half cord a year to make wife happy.. OK a cord cause house is warmer than I would keep it ..

 

Here's a few fire pics...

 

Sorry I am just seeing this, in regards to Qyota question.

I'll see if I can take some small videos and also take some pics. I AS is in the family room downstairs, so I don't have a tendency to be in front of it for hours on end, as I am with my Fireview which is upstairs in our main living area, where we read, watch TV, etc.

The AS has a nice big glass window for viewing the fire and when I get it started and refuel and fill it up and open it up to get it hot before CAT engagement it gives a great view of both flame off the wood, (which I think is most aesthetic/pretty) and at the same time it also gives a nice view of the secondary burn flames. These look like a set of gas stove burner flames coming from that secondary burn plate on the inner top of the stove. the CAT sits even above that, and can not be seen. Once the stove settles into a steady state burn, but prior to CAT engagement, the secondary burn may die out, but the wood flames will remain. One of the cool features of this stove I have discovered over time this year, is you don't need to engage the CAT, and you can burn clean anyway, just using the stove as a Secondary burn stove, and just keep getting the resulting mix of secondary flames and wood flames.

But, then I don't think you are maximizing the heat output, or the wood efficiency. So I usually will engage the CAT, and the result, unless I keep the draft pretty wide open at a setting of 2.5 to 4 (half to full open) the stove is going to go into CAT mode and actually get hotter but the wood flames will decrease or die. However, you still can get the two very cool light show flames we get in the Fireview, which are the "Rolling flames" and/or just below that, "Ghost flames", both at the top of the stove, above the wood. As the unburned wood gasses hit the CAT and then ignite inside the firebox, these don't last usually all that long, but they are a fun to watch.

Lot's of this is also dependent upon having a good draft, cold weather (which increases draft) and good dry wood.

I'll see if I can get you some photos of these. My overall suggestion is feel fine about getting a nice "fireview" out of an Absolute Steel.

 

You're doing everything right and it sounds like you are getting efficient burns and your wood usage reflects it. How well seasoned is your wood supply? My experience is 2 year old oak or hard wood gives a much better light show when on a setting of 2 or 2+ if that's what you are going for, don't be afraid to open it up. Of course you will use more wood, but experiment and you may find you can get better burns. PS I will set my draft at slightly less that 1 for overnight burns, and have come down in the middle of the night to find a nice light show going on. But this is admittedly a stove I have had to "get to know" over almost a full season this year of burning and a last year shoulder season.

PS If I clean the inside of my glass, I use just some tap water on a newspaper dipped in the stove ashes, and that takes off 90% or any reside/creosote on the stove glass. Then I just use a dry paper towel and clean with a little water, and then a final dry paper towel. I've tried all the windex like things etc.. but I think they all leave their own chemicals on the glass that causes more gunk and such to collect once the stove is lit. Try just using tap water and ash to clean then just use a paper towel and dry it off good before any restart. After trying them all thats what works best for me. On the edges I've used a straight razor thingy and that has done no harm to the glass, so the tough stuff use it after you wet it some first to soften it up.

Welcome to FHC! Lot's of great guys here with a boat load of knowledge and lots of fun.

 

If you need 45 minutes to get your wood fully engaged with flames then the most likely reason is that your wood is too wet.

 

So I woke up in the middle of the night, as us oldhippies sometimes do, so I sauntered down to check the stoves. When I went to sleep at 10PM, I had just filled the box, engaged the CAT but didn't stick around to see the CAT take off. I knew it would as I was over the 500 mark on the C0ndar probe and I've been around the stove long enough to trust it. Plus, I was tired from clearing snow the last 2 days. I set the draft at 1 and called it a night.

So I woke up at 2AM and wandered down to the living room, and then the family room to check the stoves, since it was below 10'F when I went to bed.
This is what I found. This happens a lot, just let the stove do it's thing. Great heat too!

 

My moisture readings seems to indicate a different reason. I can get it to engaged in flame in less than 45 minutes without gapping the Loading door or ash pan door, but usually going from cold stove to cat engagement or a secondaries burn in a reasonable time I need to get more air than the damper provides.

Oldhippie ask about the wood supply. black and white oak CSS in summer of 2014. round here if live trees, I fell or girdle 8"-14" oak with green leaves on in june, leave alone till fall(off the ground) then CSS uncovered. then bring under roof 2-4 weeks before burning to be handy and dry (this works for such low wood usage stove it seems. and I built the house with a covered wood storage area)
This wood has been measuring 20-15% before coming under roof at 27 months since CSS
Interesting that the standing dead oak/hickory I cut seems to take more time to season, they tend to be 16" and up with bark still intact. not sure why. I have some I did same timing as the live trees cut with leaves on and the standing dead is still not ready to burn(25-20%). Only difference is it was stacked north and next to the other.
Anyway I hope that answers the comments and the questioning on fuel quality.

I put up what I thought would be 4 cords per year usage starting two years before building the house and installing the stove.
I will be surprise if I use 2 cords in a cold winter, the house was designed specifically for heating with wood by having all 3 bedroom doors and the bath within 8 feet of stove. all 8'ft flat ceiling (the warm air plenum) on a insulated concrete slab and good wall design. south windows and man is it cozy!
The AS has exceeded my expectations in efficiency, still learning how to use it so thanks for the input guys.

For my purpose I could do well most of the time with a smaller stove. Haven't found that in a package like this so I decided to work with it. When it gets to about 5 above O degrees or colder this stove is perfect.
And I really liked doing business with Woodstock Soapstone Co. BTW

 

Could it be that partially-punked sapwood holds moisture and slows drying?

 

That would be a good explanation, though not sure what punked sapwood is exactly, (spongy/soft layer of wood under the bark?) I will have to take a real close look and see.
My criteria had been if it is losing bark ? leave it for the insects and birds, If it is on the ground ? leave it be. I have about 25 acres of Oak/hickory timber on the property where we built and process it all my self.
I may have to consider standing dead a three year seasoning process unless I get a roof built for long term wood storage. but the trade off of stacking it tight together so it can be under roof seems to be made up by single stacks spread out and available to the sun in the summer to drive the moisture out (I know this is not the right part of forum for this much discussion on wood..please forgive)
But as it pertains to using the Absolute Steel Hybrid wood stove. it is only as good as the fuel you give it.Right?

Maybe I need a stash of super dry wood for cold stove start ups. But then again that lengthens the process of going from cold to cruising for 8-12 hours if you have to get a really good bed of coals before loading stove.
back to 45 minutes (but with less smoke perhaps) this is kind of what the stove manual describes only with much less time involved.

I should note that if doing a partial reload on a good bed of coals in a warm stove this is 20 minutes and gone, (but I still have the door gaped for 5-10 to do this)

 

Out of curiosity is there not a nearby stovetop space that doesn't have the extra layer of decorative steel on it? That might be giving you just a bit lower reading with that extra layer, but I suppose if it's fastened down pretty tight the difference may be small.

Your video there looks perfect. I love when I get those hovering secondary flames dance around not right from the secondary ports but right above the door next to the cat.

 

No there isn't, the recommeded by Woodstock, is to the left or right of the flue flange, but I find anyplace on the top of the stove gives about the same reading. There really isn't anyplace that is a natural fit for the STT gauge. The CAT is just below that top decorative panel and it also has a hood-scoop thingy to direct heat toward stove front, and below it is a metal "radiator" held by 6 bolts to the bottom of the stove top. So when that stove top says 500'F it is 1000'F at the CAT, and I have now verified that with the Condar probe. Finally I think we get a bit too obsessed with accuracy around here. These gauges and the temps are really simple indicators for use with CAT engagement and then for a thumbnail of assistance with setting the draft. plus or minus 25-50'F accuracy is probably about right for the needs we have. When it's warm enough, it's warm enough, that's what it's all about.

However I am almost 3.4 through the season and I can tell this CAT needs the magic 50/50 bath of distilled water/white vinegar to get it back to top heat production, as I don't have perfect fuel, but it is pretty good. All at least a year old and most 2 year old oak/hardwood of various Northeast varieties.

 

Right. And it doesn't take long at all for Oak sapwood to start going downhill. Hickory doesn't hold up all that well either...need to get it top-covered ASAP. You can see the sapwood layer on this White Oak. It was a live blow-down and the sapwood was still in good shape since I got to it fairly quickly.

I pretty much grab anything dead, standing or down. That's mostly Red Oak, which seems to die more often than other species. If the sapwood is real crumbly, I might knock some of it off with a hatchet. The heartwood will stay good for a long, long time. I don't have a shed, but top-covering helps. Now that I'm ahead, I stack three rows wide on pallets. Sun may help a bit but wind is the main thing, so go two rows wide, max, when trying to get ahead. Don't split too big, either.

Since I have dry wood, I don't need a coal bed when starting cold; I just build a top-down fire. When splitting, I mix in different sizes, so I usually have a couple small pieces of kindling I can use for a top-down start, or I'll grab some other kindling. Just put a couple kindling on the top/front of a load, and a small chunk of SuperCedar between 'em and I'm set.