I'll add my $.02 to the discussion. I agree on the water to have a way to shut off the water at the well, below the frost level. Then have the ability to drain out the fresh water lines and anti-freeze the waste traps. You can get a relatively inexpensive forced air furnace for around $600. I know alot of guys putting them in their garage because the "insurance nazi's" have made them take out their wood burners. All propane with low setback thermostats around 45 degrees. IMO the splitless units are good as retro-fit units, parts are expensive too. I own a few cabins that I rent out and don't have room for a regular furnace. I have found the absolute most reliable small heater that is direct vent, uses propane or nat. gas. is the Rinnai heater. http://www.rinnai.us/direct-vent-wall-furnace Not a cheap date but super reliable. That is why I suggest a standard forced air furnace Sounds like a neat project. Good luck.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rinnai+direct+vent+heaters&ia=products Don't forget that with a FAF, you need ductwork and registers, and someplace to put the furnace. With these, you cut the hole in the wall and install. Simpler than the mini-split. Still need to run a gas line, but that's nothin'.
Which is why I suggested it. If you get the right one, it'll run more than one inside unit if needed. At 1,000 sq. ft., you shouldn't though.
How would you describe forced air? I associate Forced Air with ducting through a home, how do you describe forced air? Is the link you included blowing through ducting or out of the the unit?
Forced hot air is ducted heat from a furnace. Dave is talking about a mini-split, which is a wall mounted heating and A/C unit all in one. The units are hung on a wall in different areas of the living space and are controlled individually. They are electric, no gas or oil needed. They have their advantages and disadvantages. For a second home I would be ok with it, in my main home I wouldn't want one.
Disadvantages for some are the eyesore of the unit mounted high on the wall. Advantages, they are quiet, very efficient and self contained.
Ok, I knew some don't like it on the wall. I thought maybe there was a mechanical type disadvantage that I hadn't heard about. With all the stuff hanging on our walls, I don't think it would bother me.
Wildwest, No the Rinnai is a stand alone unit about the size of a base cabinets but only 12" out from the wall. It is designed to heat about 600-1000 sq. ft. No ductwork. So, the house needs to be pretty open. Once you close-in rooms you would need to add ductwork to move air (warm or cold) thru the house, thus the forced air furnace. The splitless unit is the same. No ductwork just the unit in the room. You would need one of those units in each room if the rooms are closed off. Advantage for the splitless is that you can get A/C with the splitless. My point, is 1000 sq. ft. is not alot of space to heat. The conventional forced air furnace is the most economical method to heat that 1000 sq. ft.. Now, if using propane is not what someone wants to do then the electrical system, like the splitless is a viable option or some other electric heat pump. We have used the Rinnai as a great supplementary heater for a room that is maybe not used as much in the winter, like a insulated porch. 30 below - no. But, 20 degrees with the Rinnai in a porch... very comfortable no ductwork just the gas line and exhaust out the side. Others have used small gas stove heaters, same concept.
Take this for what it is worth but I come from an HVAC background and have found that the mini splits never see to last quite as long as their full size counterparts and they can be more expensive to work on. That being said they have their place in this world but I would suggest actual duct work and a traditional HVAC unit if at all possible as it provides much more even heating and cooling in the long run and is more cost effective to work on. I always try to steer clients away from the the mini splits. You can always set an air handler with a plenum in the house and just discharge to the main area with no ductwork if you choose and it would be just as effective and much cheaper. That would also give you the option to run ductwork at a later time f you desired or pull a run or two right off the plenum for a bedroom. Whatever you do make sure every run has a damper at the plenum or ductwork so that you can balance the system as needed.
IS, I guess I'll chip in here...yes, it is possible to run no heat and keep house safe.. you definitely want to put a full basement in. then run your well lines through basement slab.. 8 foot basement 6 inch slab gravel well lines will be below frost even in NH... also when you put it in pitch your drain under slab then that won't freeze eithrr.. locate all fixtures so opening traps will be easy... I probably would skip icemaker and dish washer for ease... it can be done on a slab but more work and money.. if it takes four hours to open and close you won't use it much on 3 day weekends... you mentioned you did construction so you will put in appropriate drain valves... Sheet rock cracking.. generally happens because of humidity.. 90 percent humidity in summer none below 10 degrees. run dehumidifier or stove to dry out inside before closing takes care of cracking...
Certified, Thanks for the post you made my point so much better than I did. I can tell your an HVAC guy. Splits have a place but not here. IMO. Canadian, I am with you. Great post.
I appreciate your professional opinion and I'm really glad you chimed in here. I'd like to ask a couple of questions related to this and see where it takes me. With relationship to the mini-splits, I just had one of my customers install 2 units on one condenser to cool a studio attached to a home, a sort of in-law apartment. I was there to do some modifications and repairs on ice dam damage from this past winter and while some of the walls were open he wanted to do a ductless system in this wing of the home. I had a couple guys bid on the work and the bids were so close that I ended up going with the higher priced guy just on his written bid. This is my first time dealing with mini-splits professionally. The work was completed in under 4 hrs to include an electrician wiring the exterior breaker. The second home for us will be used most weekends and vacations. In the winter it will be heated by a woodstove and the secondary heating system will be whatever we come up with through initial cost and long term cost. My initial request from my wife is instant heat in the winter when walk through the door until the time the woodstove can permanently take over. So a few guys have mentioned options they have some experience with; traditional hot air furnaces with ductwork, the mini-splits and Minnesota Marty mentioned a wall unit fueled by propane or natural gas. I'm sure I could include electric baseboard on this as well as another option. I'm not opposed to using gas or electric to supply a heating unit, but I think I would want to stay away from oil. My question begins with limited use and cost to a mini-split. If we will just be using this unit to occasionally heat and cool 1,000 +\- sq ft do you think I would get some longevity out of it vs traditional use in a full time home. And when the mini-splits do start to have trouble, what are the issues they have, electrical? And what do you think the cost differences would be between these two units ( a mini-split and a traditional gas fired furnace) for materials and labor on the initial install? I think the long term nod would go to the furnace, and initial costs to the mini-split. What do you know about the self contained wall units that MM mentioned?
And thanks so much for chiming in with some of your experience. I'm in the construction business but I don't deal with seasonal homes at all, just new and existing home construction. Just by reading your post you can tell thee is a difference in how a person has to look at things in order to make a seasonal home work with cold weather considerations. A couple of questions for you. Are you suggesting I get the 4" pvc pitched under the slab as soon as possible? If I have a 8' foundation wall with a 4" slab I would generally run the drain line out wherever the tank is located, probably 5' below grade. Do you think this setup will run into trouble? I agree with you on the well lines being below the slab until it comes up and into the basement. Maybe setup this point (being the lowest point) for supply line drainage? Would you suggest riggid insulation on the exterior of the foundations walls? Is it a better idea to place all the drain traps in the basement in order to empty the traps before the closeup is finished, or do you think RV antifreeze is enough?
"do you think RV antifreeze is enough?" ......Our farm had a few issues, once in a while with draining water lines... but never had an issue with antifreeze poured into the traps, including toilets. I'd take a flexible plastic bowl (cool whip) and bail out as much water as I could out of the toilet bowl and tank, then pour in a little antifreeze. All faucets were always left on so water would drain out and not get caught by a siphon lock in the system. PEX lines sure would have made things easier in the old place. It was all copper.
IS, new construction, in cold weather, in my personal home the septic line runs below slab.. top of tank is buried 5 feet below grade yes insulate basement concrete well it probably won't freeze as basement below frost line wont. when i bought house tanks a long time to find tank to pump it and put risers on it... I definitely would not trust antifreeze rv.. I have seen windshield washer fluid freeze.. says right on it good to 22 below. when you design house keep your bathroom and kitchen together.. put in PVC traps traps have drain on bottom of trap they cost about dollar more... if all located one area real easy go down open the and leave open til return. I did not see a budget or area in here.. my suggestion would be if I were to do it find piece of land you want. build 3 or 4 car garage can be done cheap into hill put bonus room above it. the heating suggestions were all good but we're you going to heat it while not there? Meaning is it a vacation home or a cabin in woods to get away retire to... Definitely insulate concrete to 2 times recommendation. before I type a lot more I guess more on what your thinking.. I have seen it several ways Dad had 40 acres as a camp he put up garage. no power water woodstove, his buddy had a camp DC power generator water etc.. gramps was a master plumber electricians worked at Killington lots of 2nd homes.. many with caretakers.. my experience is everybody runs out of time and or money if it is hard to do you basically say I'm tired this weekend we will go next and eventually sell it..
