Production Woodstock IS

Hollywood, special congrats for a special event. Glad to hear everyone is healthy and warm.
You're gonna have to get a smaller pair of gloves for the "little-one"....

 

For all of us who don't have that incredible setup like BDF and want to know the basic how hot did it actually get when I was ________? (You Fill in the blank). I came up with this super simple paperclip mod. Works on multiple brand surface temp gauges. The gauge sweeps like normal and move the paper clip up to max temp and it stays there after cool down. Just note the max temp indication will be high by what the thickness if the actual indicator, looks like 50-75* on mine. I might try to bend the extra piece to try and consideration with actual thermometer reading but that might be a little excessive. Simple bends to follow the contours of the gauge face. Hope yall like it.

 

Here is my early first review of my new Woodstock Ideal stove.
Been burning for seven days mostly high teens at night and mid thirty daytime temps.
Had one day, Sunday that hit fifty and rainy, did not notice much difference in the burn.
A little about my setup, running 8" Dura vent, 15' straight up, heating 2200 sq. ft., the stove is exactly in the middle.
It is in between bedrooms in the back and living areas in the front, Its a one floor rambling sort of ranch house.
I am burning 4 year seasoned, covered, mostly oak, from a score of tree tops left behind after a lumber cut.
So they are not able to pack in real tight, some kind of of curvy and odd sized splits.
I am getting the 12 to 14 hour burns as advertised by Woodstock, loving it.
The stove is so predictable, rake up the few coals left after the burn to the front.
Pack the stove to the top, blow on the coals and instant light off.
15 minutes later front temp at 300, engage the cat, 20 minutes later slide air control to closed.
And I am good for 12 to 14 hours.
Running a front stove temp of 350 down to 250 degrees at the end of the burn cycle.
Pipe temp about 300 degrees dropping during the burn to about 200 after about 5 hours
The stove room stays in the low 80's the other rooms in the low 70's.
On wakeup the stove room is in the mid 70's,other rooms in the mid 60's.
I love this stove!!!
Because this is the only source of heat we use, Had to just do a 24 hour turn around time from the old to new stove.
My plan is to rebuild the current hearth and go to a 6" vent, this summer.
I don't really know what's under my current hearth just the tile or a cement board of some type.
The old fire breathing Defiant sat on it for 35 years with no problems.
So I set it up on the cement pavers, just in case and to be in compliance.
One thing that is odd is that at no time do the pavers even get warm.
About the only thing I am going to work on is I can't seem to throttle her down as much as I would like,
during the first few hours, possibly the 8" vent, I love a challenge, spent 35 years in automation design.
Not having any coaling issues at all.
All in all I can't see much changing in the stove performance from now on in.
I do think this stove will change my 10 year supply of firewood into a fifteen year supply.
A bit long I know, sorry.

In its new home.

The end of last nights 14 hour burn

Coals raked forward


Packed up and she's off.

15 minutes later cat ready to engage

So easy a cave man can do it!

 

I love seeing more stoves! Great stove chestnut

 

Nice review, and yep, it is an easy stove to like.

Interesting that you have that background, I am an automation engineer myself (specializing in motion control). I have always thought that the average wood stove needs a little more automation..... Not quite to the conveyor belt level perhaps but certainly draft, both where and how much, when.

Brian

 

I'm lost on reloading...

 

Yeah it takes right off okay, haven't stalled it yet I think, my first cat stove so just following Woodstock's info.

 

Enjoyed your early review Chestnut, and if the paint is fully cured yet might you be interested in putting the magnetic thermo just to the right of the cat port on the front, up high? I wonder about your post saying it read 350° there when some of us have seen the (right) front thermo hit 750° or better a couple hours after cat launch. You have a good- looking setup there. I wonder what you think once you take it out of third gear... heheh.

 

"Running a front stove temp of 350 down to 250 degrees at the end of the burn cycle.
Pipe temp about 300 degrees dropping during the burn to about 200 after about 5 hours"

therein lies the difference. I don't get squat for heat out of the stove when front temps are at 250.00. Setting the air control to fully closed won't work with the wood I have....2 year old cut/split/stacked white oak measuring less than 20% on the moisture meter. You mention you're burning stuff that's 4 years old. We may be on to something here, in that super-dry wood supercharges the Ideal. The stuff I'm burning might just be adequate.

 

Hi Brian, started my career in aerospace and mil spec back in the late 70's, relay logic and L+N paper recorders back then, then onto the early PLC,s then pc based, system's. Took my first plane ride out to JPL in Livermore Ca., at 19 years old scared stiff. I cant count the number of factory schools I've been to over the years. The defense plants where they follow you around with a guard with an AR so you don't wander any where you're not supposed to be. It was a great time always on the cutting edge of technology. Did quite a lot with autoclaves over the years making composite substrates with hundreds of monitoring points and very complex ramp, soak,pressure, vacuum equations. I don't miss the weeks out on the road and insane dead lines. you're always the last one in there to get process up and running, no matter how late the fab people are it has to be out on time.

 

Well, I am burning [less than 1 year old oak] and can reload and re- light the cat. pretty easily. I do not have a thermometer on the front of the stove but the one on the top of the stove is often well below 300F when I reload and the combustor lights right off easily.

For what it is worth, this stove will run very low temperatures without actually stalling the cat. In warmer weather, I commonly had my stovetop below 300F with the cat. below 850F and burning 100% of the visible smoke coming out of the firebox. What I am trying to say is that a cat. can be lit, active and working perfectly without putting out much heat. The keys are 1) the temp. at the top of the firebox 2) the amount of air moving through the stove (small draft settings really help in lighting the cat., this is not intuitive but it is the case) and 3) that the wood is either dry enough (and mine is around 20% or a bit more, not 'bone dry' for sure) or has charred enough to no longer be putting out much water vapor.

Try getting the whole load of fuel involved and a fairly hot fire going such that you cannot sit in front of the window w/in, say, 18" of the stove. Then shut the air down in two stages, once to 1/4 draft, and perhaps 10 minutes later, down to 3 notches; the flame will disappear entirely but the wood will continue to gas (it will pyrolyze: burning slowly with no flame) and the combustor will continue to burn the woodgas.

Brian

 

Cool.

My background is production based rather than process based. Started with mechanical machinery, moved to early electronics (the bad old days of paper tape <shudder>) and finally to high speed, servo based equipment. Mostly PC based running real- time OS's with a motion control on board or basing the control in the motion control being ancillary and machine control being an easy second to that (much slower loop closure time required, especially if commutating motors with the motion controller). But I do the entire project, concept, mechanical design as well as controls (design and code) which is a bit unusual.

But to get back on topic, it does apply pretty well to woodstoves. A simple three phase process: burn the wood and woodgas, burn the charcoal bed and finally, shut the stove down tight to hold the final few pounds of charcoal to ignite the next load. Just a little human support in loading the wood and removing the ash and it would be a cool process. Check out Herlt boilers for a slick system: they burn the fuel based on the flue gasses leaving the building at 250F, just as it should be done IMO, and store the energy to be used as needed at a future time.

Brian

 

Do you mean on the front of the stove on the opposite side of the cat port where it is now in my picture?
If I open her up it will drive me out of the house, this thing can pump out some heat.

 

So I am guessing you would be using a linear actuator /servo on the primary/secondary air, the only variable there seems to be to control.
It will be an interesting program to account for the different species of wood and moisture levels encountered .
Are you basing your inputs on cat temp and flue temps to come up with your equation?
I've had a lot of experience with P.I.D. loops and the 1/4 wave bounce on process heating systems, are you going to base it on that model?
At this point in my life, I just want the pretty flames and heat.
You're project sounds like fun, I will be following along.

 

Almost certainly a servo driven linear output with single feedback (from the linear portion only). A slow motor coupled with a fairly crude resistive feedback device will do nicely; after all, changing the draft is not a time- critical or extremely position sensitive operation Almost certainly something from the automotive world: they are robust, run on 12 volts, they are cheap, they are powerful, they are extremely tolerant of the environment and they are cheap

I do not believe any single or even dual P.I.D. loop will do- the burning process is just not linear enough for that, plus its base behavior is all over the place depending on where in the cycle the fire is. Put directly, I do not believe the same control algorithm would work for staring a fire after a reload would work, and not badly over-fire the fire, once the fuel is well- involved. I believe a time based structure program will be in order based on what phase the fire happens to be in at the moment. Time based but the control will need to be 'set' when the stove is loaded. After that, just a fairly simple look-up table, not unlike an air / fuel table or spark advance table used in any vehicle's ECU. The really nice part about it being electronic rather than mechanical is that the stove does not have to run at a steady output: in fact my goal is to drop the stove's output in the 'off hours' of, say, 12:00 AM and 5:00 AM, saving the fuel for a hotter burn from, say, 5:00 AM to 8:00 AM. I believe we are currently burning wood inefficiently because we cannot adjust the stove at the very time it needs it most- during the long, overnight burn when the stove is unattended and the temps. are usually lowest outside.

Brian

 

Posts from the IS beta testers and owners this year indicate the hottest surface is the front above the door just right side of the cat port. Indeed, the rare time or two I saw the stainless canister under the cat glowing, the right side glowed and not the left side.

 

Okay I have it there now, going to check it out thanks, I have been putting the little pieces of kindling on the right side seem to light off there.

 

I don't think I am quite understanding your explanation.

So will you be modulating the air input slide plate like you would in most process applications to achieve a certain air fuel ratio/running temp.
Then just shutting it down based on time of day, say 5-8?
What would you base this lookup table on for parameters, it seems like there are only two inputs available cat temp and flue temp.
There also seem to be a great deal of variables that you cant be know by your program.
The fuel characteristics of gasoline, fuel oil and propane are quite defined and the right air to fuel ratio is known, not like the various wood types and moisture content in our firewood and the various different drafts based on outdoor air temps.

I know its quite a bit off topic.
Just curious from an engineering point of view.

 

I did do a moisture measure measurement with a harbor freight meter yesterday split 4 pieces got 10% to 15%.
I do wonder if the 8" pipe makes a difference in draft causing it to burn better, I don't know.

 

The stainless steel cook plate under my center burner has warped. The tea kettle no longer sits quite flat, likewise the removable steel plate. Curious if anyone else has had this issue... Guess I've been burning too hot.