Cleaning a "New" CAT-surprising results

But aren’t they different? I think BKVP said there’s more coating on the cat you would get from the dealer verses somewhere else? How much more and how much better I don’t know?

 

We have no data or reason to think that the dealer part is any different than aftermarket from the same manufacturer. Other than the dealer suggesting that theirs is better. You know you can buy ford brand oil for your ford truck?

I’ve burned through two BK cats and got the exact same performance and hours as aftermarket as I would expect.

If there was some return on the extra investment for the BK part then we’d have something to talk about.

 

I was reminded by my dealer that with the new stove, BK will give one free cat replacement if it goes bad with 10 years. If that's any indication of the potential life expectancy, that's pretty impressive. So far, I have zero complaints about the performance of my stove in every aspect.

 

"Potential"...for the average user, not full-time burners, like firewood hoarders!
You'll hit the 12k operating hours before 10 years, so should be able to get a freebie...

 

As long as there is no independent testing showing (in however ideal situation the test was done, as long as it was done the same way for both cats) an advantage for the BK cat, I see no compelling reason to spend more.

If they want to sell them, they have to show that they're worth the higher price.
Just telling me and then hoping my experience will bear out it's worth it is not good enough to convince me.


Regarding the first cat in 10 years free replacement. I think they want the old cat back (so they can study it), AND they want you to experience that a new cat really is nice as compared to an old cat.
We get used to slowly (!) deteriorating cat performance. The step up to a new cat performance is then something to remember. My guess is that they want that to happen to entice customers to replace cats when needed, rather than keep running with a slowly dying and then dead cat, especially if one burns only a little (hence the 10 years; they need to be sure the cat has deteriorated a lot so that the new cat performance is an impressive step up).

 

The 10 year thing is also just plain marketing. Other brands were doing it so if BK didn't then it would seem as though they were not confident or inferior. I believe the intent is to trick buyers into thinking that these things last 10 years regardless of actual usage and so become an even smaller consideration. As we can see from Pyromaniac's post, the marketing is working since he/she thought it had something to do with life expectancy. But whatever, get our free cat! You'll likely need it after 2-3 years if you use your stove for most of your heating.

I'm hoping that BK has invented a better catalyst that lasts longer. I would pay more for that. With all of their testing capabilities and documentation prowess I would expect them to be able to demonstrate this for the consumer. Until or unless that happens we will just have to wait for somebody to take the risk and be able to quantify the increase in life expectancy.

 

12k hours for me is likely 2.75 to 3 years (I am almost through my second winter, 3 months to go). My stove provides 100% of my heating with seasons averaging about 8 months start to finish.

I cleaned my chimney two days ago, and was shocked with the small amount of soot that came down. Easily less than a cup of fine powder after a full 6 months of heating. Very impressed.

 

Note that most of the debris will be stuck up above the bypass and not fall to the firebox floor. You have to get up there behind the cat to clean it out.

 

After brushing the pipe, I disconnect the pipe from the stove and brush the debris into the fire box. Seems to work pretty good that way. While I'm at it, I grease up the moving parts with some graphite grease. I'm sure it burns off, but it makes me feel better.

 

With that big ol' 8" flue collar you could probably suck it all out with a shopvac from above. That's what I do with my princess. Just be sure that the bypass gasket is clear and the back of cat area doesn't have a pile.

 

I installed my King on a 6-in chimney. I installed it with every intention of tearing it out and installing an 8-in chimney if the stove did not perform, but after two winters, it has performed above my expectations on the 6-in chimney

 

The wash coat applied to combustors used in EPA testing is 100% more than assuredly NOT the same as many cats sold online. As a mfg, we can only recommend that the exact same combustor used in the emissions testing is the same we sell to dealers. Regardless of other thoughts, this is factual and EPA is very aware that the lack of law/enforcement of the online sellers. EPA is unlikely to tackle this issue anytime soon.

We do not know what the dealers have in their stores and where they were purchased. It is possible they were sold to them by our company. Just because it fits doesn't make it the same and any posts contrary are not fully informed are sharing their own experiences, which is fine.

BKVP

 

golf66 on the ideal Steel I keep 2 cats, change 1/2 way through burning season, usually January thaw.
Clean both at end of season. On that stove changing a cat can be done in coaling stage. Takes 2 minutes, but my stove has been hot since November except for a few days. Woodstock says 10,000 hours a cat so for me about 5,000 hours a year so 2 years..

 

It's too bad that there is no way to verify what you say to be true. Like some sort of data from anybody. The seller of aftermarket cats, made by the same company, claims that they are the same.

I'd be happy to pay double if the dealer catalyst lasted twice as long. In my experience this is not the case. In my experience they are indistinguishable. Not "100% more".

Are we uninformed? Then how are we to be informed?

 

Easy. Email the online seller. Ask them, other than size, are the precious metal coating precisely the same as those on my original combustor? Send or post their response here and let me know. The actual mfg of the combustors assures me they are not the same.

BKVP

 

I got a fiver that says none of the combustor mfg's. are going to readily admit to selling a replacement that seemingly could be construed as non-conforming and, or less than equal in performance when compared to the EPA approved/tested OEM unit. Call me . Dunno.........

Great question to be asked. Interested in hearing the response.

 

I was thinking about this... I don't work for BK. The vendor peddling the cat costing about double ought to be able to tell us why it's worth the extra. Perhaps the actual manufacturer can tell you what you are buying, why it's better than what he sells to midwest, and you can pass it on to us which would increase your profits. The fruits of this labor are yours to be had.

 

To satisfy some, I wrote to Applied Ceramics, the leading supplier to industry. Here is their response, printed with their permission, typos as written:

Applied Ceramics, Inc. has been a supplier of catalytic combustors for wood-burning appliances for more than 45 years. We have supplied both manufacturers and the aftermarket with EPA-tested and certified catalytic products throughout our history. To generalize, our products burn the smoke and gases emitted from burning cord wood. When used properly, they lengthen burn times, maximize heat generation within the home, boost efficiencies of the appliance, and reduce lost heat emitted as smoke up your chimney.

We are truly concerned with some of the competitive products that are now being offered through online sales sites such as Amazon. After sourcing some of these competitive products from overseas manufacturers, we sent them off to a third party laboratory to analyze the content of precious metal within the products coated surface area. There was NONE included in these products which creates a potential fire hazard and major insurance liability. These type of non-functional products will simply collect soot and ash, ultimately bocking the exhaust of smoke out of your appliance.


I have a meeting with EPA's OAQPS to discuss this very subject.

BKVP