Fireview - Efficient burning

Thanks for the replies, all.

Backwoods Savage, I'm just west of Kalamazoo, at the edge of the lake effect belt, where when the weather says to expect 6-12" of snow coming, you can expect about 3". I wish they'd quit getting my hopes up like that...

I have had the stove for 10 or so years now, and have tried many different ideas during that time but I welcome any advice you have. It does occur to me that everyone wants something different out of their stove, so maybe I should start there. Weekdays, I want the stove to stay warm for 10-11 hours during the day while I'm at work, and then again another 7-8 hours when I'm in bed at night. The stove seems to like to run 400-500 degrees with the cat engaged, and only has so much space inside to load the wood, so I assume that it's best to get it up to 500 degrees, if possible, then do a hot load. That way the load of wood is burned to maintain that temperature for as long as possible, rather than being used up to get to those temps, then maintain. I have no idea if this is accurate, but a corporate jet pilot once told me that he uses 30% of his fuel taking off and getting to cruising altitude, and that if he could refuel at altitude, it would extend his range 60% or more. It makes sense to me the stove is somewhat similar to that, and a hot load is like a mid-air refueling.

A typical day in early February would be waking up to a 250-300 degree stove with coals in the bottom, throwing 3-4 or so pieces of wood in, and running it wide open to get it up to temp. This gives me the fastest warmth in the house while I drink a cup of coffee, then get ready for work. 90 minutes later, I have a 400-500 degree stove and a generous bed of very hot coals. I then load it as full as I can get it, set the air intake to about 2, wait 15 minutes, engage the cat, adjust air intake down to 1, and leave for work. When I get home, the stove is 200-250 degrees. I do a 1/2 - 3/4 load, since I only need it to last 3-4 hours, and engage the cat around 300 degrees, using up that load to get up to temp and maintain temp until I go to bed, at which time I do a hot load, and repeat the process from the AM.

Weekends, I tend to burn without the cat, but that's because I always seem to always have too much cherry in the wood pile, due to the nature of my property and age of the forest. I'd be interested to hear an explanation if anyone knows why this is, but cherry and my catalytic combustor don't like each other that much. If I'm burning more than 30% cherry, the cherry just turns to charcoal that never seems to burn up. It literally stays as non-burning charcoal, and won't burn up unless you can get steady air flowing over it, which is why I tend to not engage the cat on the weekends... I'm just getting rid of more cherry & saving the better stuff for the long burns during the work week. That being said, everyone around here who buys for their fireplaces seems to like it due to the blue flames and smell of the smoke, so I assume cherry just takes more oxygen to burn up, and that's why it doesn't work with the cat so well.

Oldhippie

On the no flames, cat glowing, I may have found the answer. I was experimenting with it last night, and now I'm thinking my stove may have a slight manufacturing defect, or else I just misunderstood the stove. The markings on the air intake slide scale from 1-4, with enough movement to actually move the lever from what would be a 0 to nearly a 5. The lever has 2 obvious detents that you feel as you're moving it, one of them just under 1, and one just past 4. If you move it higher than the detent past 4, the lever will not move back without some determined wiggling back and forth. It almost feels like it gets off track, and the wiggling gets it back on track, which then allows you to slide it back down. The other detent is at 1, and if you move the lever lower than 1, it moves fairly easily, but you hear what sounds like one cast iron part sliding against another. Not much friction, just the noise. When I have the cat going, I always slide the lever down to the 1 detent, and that's where she burns. Last night, I was able to get the smolder going with the cat glowing without the flame by sliding it below detent at the 1 mark. Previously, I had thought the detent was there as a "lowest setting", like past the detent, you've closed the air intake, but now it seems that's not the case. Question: Do you guys have the detents on the air intake lever like I do? Maybe it was my misunderstanding that the detent was there as a minimum setting.

You raise a good point on drying wood another year. The smoldering doesn't get me past 500 degrees, so I think I'm going to try to make the woodpile bigger, and go for that 3rd year. The wood that I burn has been stacked and covered for 18-24 months, but I'm heavily shaded here. Several years ago, my local utility, who always talks about how "green" they are cut the equivalent of a superhighway through my front woods along the power line that feeds my house. Then they piled up all the brush, and when I complained a nice lady on the phone explained to me that it was for "habitat" to attract rabbits and other wildlife. Anyways, after I was done being annoyed with that happy event, I noticed that there seems to always be a breeze moving west to east through where they clear cut, even on days when I don't notice a breeze in the woods or at my house. It's like the woods funnels the air through there, so I started using all the wasted space under power lines to stack my wood, east to west. It gets very little sun when the leaves are up, but is nearly always seems to have the breeze. I never saw the need for a moisture meter, as my wood is stacked for that long, and never sizzles when I put it in the stove, but perhaps I've assumed too much. I believe I may pick one up. Thanks for that tip.

 

Just a question, and a couple of quick thoughts.

Queestion: When was the last time you got a new cat? Related to that, have you ever done the 50% white vinegar and 50% distilled water cleaning, with a (hand pump) pressure sprayer? That cat may be part of your problem.

Some thoughts.

1. My air intake lever goes from 0-1-2-3-4, there are no detents I feel as I adjust through the range. The are speedbump like markings at each of the numbered settings.
2. My understanding of Woodstock stoves (hesitant to say all stoves) is that even with the air intake set to full stop zero there is still some air intake happening to meet EPA emission standards.
3. We don't know much about your install, things like 90' stack angles and type and height of chimney, condition of flue all have effect on draft, which will definitely have an impact on how your stove burns. But with the adjust ability you should be able to find the right cruise settings to go from post cat engagement through to coaling burn off. Example: My cruise setting is 1, Backwooods Savage is .5
4. I'm convinced my wood which I buy from a guy that brings it green, straight from where it's harvested to my house wants 2 years and ideally 3 off the ground, stacked and covered to be ideal. Since I've been able to do that, I reach the 700 redline, regularly.

 

Thanks for the response, Oldhippie

I believe my FireView is 2 years older than yours; 2010, I believe. No complaints about the stove. I had an issue with the stove early on; the top was cracked, which was not noticeable in the veining, and didn't become obvious until it started to stain from a little bit of smoke leaking through. It was pretty minor, and took a year for me to notice the discoloration. WS replaced that free of charge. Last year, after about 30 cords through it, I replaced the top of the firebox, underneath the cat. The cast iron was noticeably sagging in the middle. WS sent me a stainless steel replacement. Aside from maintenance stuff like gaskets, I believe I'm on my 3rd catalytic combustor. Seems like every 3 to 4 years I start to notice that it isn't performing quite as well. I'm in year 2 or 3 of this cat. I'm not sure if it's ceramic; it's whatever WS sent me then.

1. My air intake lever goes from 0-4 as well. I incorrectly said it was 1 in my earlier post. I have the same speedbump like markings. The detents that I feel are quite obvious, but it's only the detent at 4 that I have to be careful of not going past.
2. I did not realize the air intake set to full stop zero would still allow air in. I had assumed 0 was closed. Good info... Thanks for that.
3. I'll post a pic of my install the Woodstock released when I did it. There are things I'd do differently if I was doing it again, but you make the best decisions you can at the time, and learn later what you like and don't like. Stove pipe comes out the back into a T, then straight up, except for the tow little angles you see in the pic below. Maybe 30 degree angles that were necessary, as I tore a fireplace out of this corner and replaced with the fireview. Double walled stovepipe. Maybe 7-8 feet inside the room, and about the same again in the chase, for a total of 15' to the chimney cap. Back then, I insulated the chase, thinking it would help with draft. It's a big chase, and I had plenty of room to do it. I'm not sure it was worth the effort, though. Stove drafts very well, and when I'm loading, I don't see smoke coming into the house, a slight smoke smell for a minute afterwards, at most, but not every time. Air intake is outdoors air, but I've disconnected, and used indoors air. I cannot tell a difference between the two settings, either in the way it burns, or house temps.
4. I'm leaning towards your view that it's my wood that is the cause of my cooler temps when the cat is engaged. You just caught my attention with your post, as 200 more degrees out of the stove would be noticed by me, especially on the colder days.

That all said, don't get me wrong... I'm not complaining, in fact, I brag about my FireView to friends and family. It's just a quest to find a little more efficiency that I didn't know I could get out of it.

 

Looking at that doorway, your ceilings look to be 8' tall. The interior pipe is 5-6' vertical plus another 7-8 or so chimney, minus what you have for bends which is the 90 and two 30s, you might only have 10' of equivalent chimney height. No worries about overdrafting.

 

This is a very interesting conversation to me. We are considering getting an indoor wood stove at some point & the fireview is appealing to me.

 

Agree. Just wish it had top vent option...

 

It is a stove with a long earned reputation for happy owners. I planned on installing one before I got the BK. I liked the look of stone and the performance compared to a noncat stone stove. What killed it for me was the rear vent and associated huge rear clearance requirements. The IS does about everything better than the Fireview but it looks a lot different and has not earned the same dependable reputation.

If you can manage a smaller output stove, the keystone top vents and has a long term excellent track record like the fireview.

 

I drove down through your piece of Mass the other day taking the back way to Beverly to visit my son, drop off a Xmas present that finally got shipped to me and then took the high-way home. I really prefer backroads when I'm not in some kind of time being important mode. Which is most of the time lately.

 

That's a nice installation, those mild bends are not a problem at all. I may have more chimney height that you do, but it sounds like you have a good draft. You have 2 less 90' bends than I do and lined chimney. I'm sure you have good burns going. I don't like that air control behavior. First time I've ever heard about indents on a Fv and it sounds like something might be slightly loose or out of adjustment going on there. Might want to run that by someone at Woodstock. Every once in a while I need to adjust the cat engagement lever, but I've never had to adjust anything on the air intake. Also, although I frequently hit that 700'F mark, it never stays there all that long. It'll get up there, stay there as it gasses off for maybe an hour or so, and then gradually decrease down into the 4oo to 500 degree range for a couple few more hours and then slowly drop down to 200. Depending on the tiime of day and the temps inside and out, I'll let it turn those coals to fine ash for a couple hours before I refill. I'm pretty much on a 3 loads per 24 hours schedule.

 

Thanks, Oldhippie. Back when, I happened to vacation at a cabin in Vermont that had a FireView. Had never heard of Woodstock before, but by the end of the trip, I was so impressed with the FireView that I drove up to NH, took a factory tour, and took one home with me. I've never regretted it. I do wish I'd raised my hearth like the one in your image. It gets a little warm in front of my stove. Not dangerous warm, but I don't think a floating floor would like the 3 or so heating expansion / cooling contractions per day from the stove. I think the bit of distance a raised hearth gives would be better in that scenario. Your timing is about what I see out of my stove, just not getting as much heat out of it. When it's single digits out, like it is now, I'm giving it more air to get heat, so it takes 4 fills per day to heat the house, but bump it to the 20's, and it's 3 per day. It makes me respect the early settlers that lived through the tough winters even more, because they did it with hand saws and inefficient fireplaces. Hard to imagine...

I had just joined the forum when I posted on this thread. In looking around further, this thread answers my question about cherry. What causes coaling I should have been a little less quick to ask a question that has been answered already. The long 10-11 hour burns explain why I get coaled up by the cherry when I burn too much of it. It works much better when I'm around to adjust the air intake and burn up the coals. I did buy a moisture tester, and my cherry is ~20%. I didn't get to my oak or hickory, but that's no doubt higher, as it's drying the same amount of time as the cherry is, so I'm pretty sure that it's my wood supply that's keeping my stove a bit cooler.

 

My brother and SIL live there. We always take the back way down rt 1 or Rt 97. Nice area.

 

Many thanks Backwoods Savage and Oldhippie for the good advice. Not seeing quite the performance you guys are, but definitely running about 100 degrees warmer than it was before your input. So... a hearty thank you for being so willing to help.

Is there a good thread on FireView maintenance that you can point me towards? For example, gasket replacement schedule, and the like? Looks like I'm going to have to add some refractory cement to the back wall of the firebox (likely self-inflicted when raking coals with a poker).

 

I've had mine since 2012, so far the maintenance has been adjust the air intake engagement mechanism inside on the right hand side of the bypass door. It's easy peasy with a small 1/2" box head wrench, when it's cold. I've inspected and found the top cover gasket to be coming loose on one side and just used a finger tips of gasket cement to repair.

Other than that chimney cleaning regularly, once a year for me, and taking the cat out about 1/2 way through the season and giving it the white vinegar/distilled water treatment one or twice a season. also making sure to clean the screen and replace the 2 big cotterpins a couple times. That's it!

Oh yes, make sure the wife doesn't get sloppy with watering potted plants she puts on top of it in the nice weather months. It can stain the soapstone. This is a misdemeanor as opposed to putting a scratch in one of the motorcycles, which is grounds for divorce. (just kidding)

Hoard the wood so you stay at least on a 2 year old wood cycle, and you'll be stylin'!

 

I was getting good temps out of the stove this weekend, but still wasn't getting the same burn time as some others have been talking about here with the FireView, so I had a conversation with Woodstock today, and they pointed out another potential issue for my performance lagging, which is a warped Bypass Frame.



Sure enough... Mine is warped, allowing gas to gas bypass the catalytic combustor, and exit directly up the flue. This pic is from me laying down right in front of the stove, and looking up at the top of the stove through the window. Flames a bit high, in order to provide lighting. The arrow is pointing towards the warp, and gap that is letting gas escape.



The guy I talked to likened it to a shear pin of sorts. In the event of an overtemped stove, it's designed to fail before the combustor pan. A heat shield of sorts, I suppose. I asked him if it was evidence that I'd overtemped the stove, and he said that if a customer replaces it after 2-3 years, then yes, but since it's lasted 12 years / ~36 cords of wood, probably not. I forget the exact price, but seems like it was under $30 for that and the gasket. Looks like it's only a couple of bolts to loosen, in order to replace it. Thinking I'd better find my penetrating oil, since they've been in the firebox for this many years.

I'd also asked about the pitting on the soapstone on the interior, and they're sending me a mix of refractory cement that they make out of soapstone dust from their saws, so I'll give that a try as well. I have an area maybe 1/8" deep x 1" high by 3" long where the soapstone has eroded away, but I think that's self inflicted by my poker as I rake coals to the front a couple of times per day.

 

Very interesting, this is the first I've heard of failure of a Fireview part. Do you access that part from inside the firebox, or from the top? Geeze I've had mine going so 24X7 for so long here in Mass, and it still staying cold, but I'll take a look at mine. But I can see how that would prevent you from hitting a high-end temp.

Good thing you made that call.

Steve

 

Access from inside the box. It's bolted into the bottom of the combustor pan. You can see it by comparing the straight edge of the combustor pan against the edgte of the Bypass Cover. May need a flashlight. You may not be able to see it if yours is straight. I don't think it's something you'd see if you weren't looking for it, because of the low angle you have to look from.

Woodstock switched from a cast iron combustor scoop that was held in place with bolts to a stainless steel one that is held in with cotter pins. My 2010 stove came with the cast iron one, and I had to replace it a couple of years ago for the same warping issue, and they sent me the stainless. It must have been stainless steel by 2012, if you have the cotter pins at the top of your stove. The explanation they gave me was that they switched to stainless, due to the lighter stainless allowing the cat to heat up quicker. I can see that... The cast piece I pulled out weighed several pounds, and I seem to remember the stainless one weighing several ounces.

I don't work with metal, but I think that I once heard that the disadvantage of cast iron is that it's more brittle than steel, but the advantage is that it stands up to high temps better. I'm sure there are a lot of different mixes of steel that stand up to different temps... I just don't know enough to even know what I don't know when it comes to metals, unfortunately. 12 years of burning is probably 1,800 days or so for me. Add to that 2-3 cycles per day between maybe 300 degrees, and 1,200 degrees due to loading and burning off, throw in some thermal shocking from 10 degree wood going into the stove on occasion, and I'm amazed that anything can stand up to that kind of wear and tear. If it's a part that's expected to protect (heat shield) the main body of the top of the stove, I'm just grateful that it's a cheap one, and easy to swap out.