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Woodstock Absolute Steel: chimney suddenly smoking in cat mode?

Discussion in 'Modern EPA Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Tiva, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. Tiva

    Tiva

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    Hi-
    We installed a Woodstock Absolute Steel back in Dec 2018 when we moved into a house without a woodstove. It worked great the first winter (easy to burn with loading only 2X/day; no smoke to be seen or smelled when in cat mode). The second winter, we rented the house to someone who was a bit clueless. This winter, we're having trouble with smoke from the chimney, even in cat mode.

    Details:
    -we live in the Upper Pensinula, so it's a long cold winter. Right now, temps aren't dropping below 27 at night, so we're still burning fairly small fires; otherwise the Absolute is too hot for this well-insulated 1800 sq ft house
    -our wood (maple and yellow birch) was cut in Feb 2019; we always burn it at less than 20% moisture, tested with moisture meter. Right now we're burning wood that's 15- 17%
    -we've been heating primarily w/wood for 20 years, but this is my first cat stove since an ancient Vermont Castings 25 years ago
    -I cleaned the cat w/vinegar and distilled water a few days ago, when I noticed the smoke. The fire burns more easily, but there's still smoke
    -the stove easily gets up to 300º, and then we drop the cat and slowly drop the air control in stages (but never to less than 2.5)
    -the chimney is new, double wall, insulated stovepipe, and a straight shot up (single story house; we put the stove in the middle of the room, so the pipe is inside heated space most of its length)
    -the chimney is regulation height above the roof peak, and we don't have trees or hills blocking it, and it worked fine the first winter
    -we installed an outside air supply for the stove
    -The stove is belching smoke outside now, no matter if I have the cat engaged or not, and no matter how small or large the fire I'm burning.


    Question:
    -I think the chimney needs to be cleaned. Surely that can't hurt, anyway--we haven't cleaned it since we installed it 22 months ago, and a clueless person operated the stove all last winter, probably in smoldering mode
    -My husband says the chimney isn't the problem, because he can't see much creosote in the bottom when he looks. Plus his pal (who initially installed the chimney) climbed up last December when the tenant complained that she couldn't get the stove to burn well. He said it looked fine.
    -What's the next step? Clean the chimney? Make it taller if that doesn't work?


    -
     
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  2. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    Renters might have destroyed cat with inappropriate burning. I would consider a second cat install it if it fixes problem great having two allows you to clean first cat while stove keeps house warm with second.
     
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  3. Tiva

    Tiva

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    Thanks! How would I know if it's ruined? It looked fine when I pulled it out and cleaned it yesterday.
     
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  4. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    Well it might just be dirty give it a vinegar bath and rinse with distilled water and see if that helps the problem. I have Ideal steel and understand the cat issue I would start there is it’s just a smoke in chimney issue. I assume you are burning dry wood and reaching correct temperatures.
     
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  5. Tiva

    Tiva

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    Yep, washed it w/vinegar and distilled water 2 days ago; dry wood (><17% on moisture meter); letting it reach correct temperatures.
     
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  6. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    That did not correct smoke issue?
     
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  7. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Re-split and then tested on the fresh split face, in the center?

    A bad cat doesn't necessarily "look" bad...sometimes, but not always.
     
  8. Highbeam

    Highbeam

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    Cats don’t last very long. 10-12 thousand hours is all they’re rated for. And that’s if you do everything right! All of the dead cats, except one, that I’ve worn out looked just like new except a Grey color instead of the almost brown they are when new.

    I only get two years per cat. It’s entirely possible you’re just due for a new one.

    A cat stove tolerates wet wood surprisingly well so as long as it’s not bubbling out then it’s probably not the issue.

    As mentioned above, get a new one and see if that fixes your problem. They’re not terribly expensive and you will be needing it soon anyway.
     
  9. BDF

    BDF

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    Yeah, what Highbeam said- cats just do not last all that long. I usually get 1 1/2 years out of mine before it gets so sluggish and prone to stalling (very slow to 'light off' and unless pushed pretty hard by the stove, they tend to stop combusting after they start, or light off). Quite a few of us have found this to be the case, regardless of what a manufacturer states regarding cat. lifespan.

    Also, they do not fail like a light bulb but rather work less and less well until they are replaced. Mine are still working when I replace them, at least so far as they can be made to light but they no longer work at the lower settings I use for steady heating of the stove. Put another way, the harder you push the stove, the less 'fresh' the combustor needs to be because being supplied with a lot of heat and fuel, even a pretty shot cat. will work. It is when the stove is damped down that they become a problem and stop working.

    And yet more bad news: there is no way to actually test a cat. other than to use it in a stove and see if it will significantly rise in temp. beyond what the firebox is running at. So if the firebox is in the 500F range, and the temp. above the cat. is significantly higher than, say perhaps over 800F, then it would indicate the cat. is functioning. But there is not any way to actually test a cat. to see how effective it is without using it.

    Best of luck with your situation. Lots of us have found out about the short effective live of catalytic combustors after using them for a while.
     
  10. moresnow

    moresnow

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    What is your routine for testing moisture content? Get your splits selected for testing inside for a day or better to get them up to room temp prior to testing. Your splits need to be re-split and tested on the freshly exposed inner face. Maybe this is how you are doing it already?

    Guessing the outdoor air kit has been installed since new?

    Clean the chimney for certain, paying close attention to the rain cap, particularly if it's equipped with a spark arresting screen. The screens are notorious for plugging.

    Renters and new modern stoves....... No good:whistle:

    Best of luck. Let us know what you find.
     
  11. Tiva

    Tiva

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    • On renters: Yes, I know--I never want to rent my house again!
    • On the outside air kit: we installed it with the original installation of the stove
    • On testing moisture content, I do a fresh split and check the middle after splitting. Our first winter, we did burn wetter wood when we ran low on good wood (we brought half our nicely dried firewood from our old house and left the rest for the new owners).
    • New cat: I had no idea how short their life span in! I'll get a new one and see if that helps.
    • On chimneys: And the chimney definitely needs cleaning--I took a picture when I pulled out the cat this morning, and I'm not lighting this stove again until the cleaning gets done! I wasn't sure if a chimney that needs cleaning could cause smoking when the cat is down, but this chimney looks awful:
    IMG_9904.JPG
     
  12. Tiva

    Tiva

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    No, afraid not
     
  13. moresnow

    moresnow

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    Your chimney deposits are the desired color. On a brighter note! Report what you find up top with the cap screen (if equipped).

    Cat life can be adversely shortened by un intentional abuse. Perhaps the renter was opening the loading door without opening the bypass first etc. Maybe they loaded frozen/snowy splits etc. Several scenario's that are heck on a cat equipped stove. Who knows, they may have been loading a split or two every few hours like a old smoke dragon causing thermal shock from the cool room air. Really hard to say.
     
  14. Tiva

    Tiva

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    Woodstock is out of stock on the cats--but the good news is that it's under warranty still, so if the chimney cleaning doesn't fix the issue, I shouldn't have to pay the $175 cost.
     
  15. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Moderator

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    This does not surprise me at all after what you say about the renters. But fear not, you can still use the stove but won't get quite as much heat; but still enough to keep you toasty.

    The chimney was not so bad and the good news is it was not black.

    If you can't get a new cat right away, you can always do another vinegar bath. I did that once and it did help a little. Be sure to use very warm to hot water except for rinsing. At least I've had best luck this way.

    Good luck and keep enjoying the UP! Many times we so wish we had never left.
     
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  16. brenndatomu

    brenndatomu

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    Aftermarket cat for the interim...save the warranty cat for next time?
     
  17. Canadian border VT

    Canadian border VT

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    Yeah I agree with moresnow on abuse of Cat..
     
  18. Hoytman

    Hoytman

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    You cleaned the chimney yet? I may have missed it. Doesn’t look bad, but I see flaking that could have fell down into the top of the stove. Did you also clean the top of the stove? Could be full of crud.

    Not at all familiar with these stoves. Just offering some thoughts for help.
     
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  19. BDF

    BDF

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    That chimney is not all that dirty, and what deposits are there are dry and not at all likely to light. Lots and lots of people burning with far dirtier, and far more dangerous chimneys towards the end of a single burning season. Of course there are deposits in there so cleaning it is not a bad idea but it is not anything I would call a pressing issue.

    It also shows that your tenants ran the stove pretty cleanly because a lot of smoldering fires would produce a lot more creosote than that.

    Just my own opinion and experience but a 'bad' chimney is closed down by at least half, and a 'really bad' chimney is completely blocked off.

     
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  20. Tiva

    Tiva

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    Update: we cleaned the chimney today, cleaned the cat once again with distilled water and vinegar, cleaned all the internal workings of the stove that I could reach.

    And now it's burning brilliantly again--no smoke at all once I drop the cat.

    I suspect the chimney cap was the problem--the bottom of the chimney wasn't bad, but as someone suggested, the cap was nasty and closing in with creosote. Now that everything's clean, all is well! Thanks for your suggestions.
     
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