Oversize/Extra Large Insert Help

Howdy all, hoping for some help finding a good solution for some wasteful chimneys. I have a few 42” by 29” high by 30” deep masonry fireplaces. I know, it’s terrible. The biggest inserts I have found are 3 cubic feet firebox, and far smaller than the dimensions of the fireplaces. I think I have looked all over, but does anyone have an efficient cat insert that’s larger than something like the Lopi Hybrid-Fyre Large Insert? It looks pretty good, but I’m a total novice and looking for advice. It makes sense to me that a larger machine would hold more wood fuel therefore burn longer, and use more material as a heat sink to share with the room. The hearth sticks out about 14” from the front of the fireplace and I am not opposed to an insert that utilizes that space. Any help, advice, insight, etc., would be appreciated. Thank you, and have a great week!
Rush

 

First off welcome aboard. My Buck 91 is good sized but no bigger than what you mentioned. The new inserts can already give you long burn times without putting the whole kitchen table in the firebox. You do not need to fill that whole space with stove, just a nice close out panel. The other option would be a free standing stove maybe with a rear flue exhaust.

 

I have a question or two and maybe a solution- possibly.

First- are any of the open hearths part of a chimney system where the backing of the hearth is still inside the house? Like a centrally placed fireplace? OR are they all on external walls?
A house I lived in for a few years had a "firebox insert" - no secondary reburn or cat system to it, just a flue damper. But the thing it had going for it was the back of the chimney was still inside the house, in our breezeway. I would get it going for a while, and eventually it would burn out and we'd close the damper, but the bricks would be - somewhere a bit more than warm to the touch, but not hot to the touch on the back side of the chimney the next morning.
If you have external chimneys an insert would probably be your best bet anyway, but with a blower or something to keep as much of the heat as possible inside the home.
Since you're saying you have "a few" maybe consider putting as big an insert as possible in one of them and glass doors on the others to help reduce heat loss if you were to burn them? But I want to follow this one because I'm curious to see what other options are out there.

 

Welcome aboard Rush Battle


No insert experience here.

 

This 5100i by Quadra-Fire is about as big as I could find, and while the burn chamber doesn't go the whole span for how wide your fireplace is, it goes about as high, and it comes with a surround that would fit the size of your opening.
The Princess Insert by Blaze King seems to be quite large as well, but the dimensions are a bit smaller. Take a look at those and see if you think they'd look / and perform to what you'd want. I'll keep looking around.

 

Would one of these fit?

Napoleon nz3000h aka high country
Napoleon High Country 3000 Eco Wood Fireplace | NZ3000H

 

I just looked up the dimensions on the Buck 91 catalytic. It will fit, it claims a 4.4 firebox but that includes the area of the cat shield as well. Whatever you do you might want to get moving before the new 2020 regulation come out.

 

You guys are great! I checked out all of the suggestions, thanks for all of the help! After going through once I will look at them all again.

I should have clarified about the “few” fireplaces. I have two on separate floors that I might put inserts into, they are the same size. I am also considering an insert on the lower floor and a VF-100 for the larger floor, if I can find a way to run the chimney from the basement. Unfortunately the builders of this house were not consistent, they insulated well but put in terrible gas inserts in places that make it hard to do anything else, and don’t allow for a more efficient solution without great cost.

I’ll admit, I moved to Western North Carolina last year and I hadn’t heard of Buck yet. Definitely an amateur!
The Buck 91 looks good, seems like it could be fed two or three times a day and provide most of the heat for the house. My house is pretty big but well insulated, and it only gets into the teens a handful of times a year.

Can anyone provide feedback on install cost for these inserts, I got a quote for $2k to install any insert including the liner, although I’m not sure if I actually need the liner. The liner is around $750 and labor $1250. Seems high but would like y’alls opinions.

Thanks again for everything! I will update this thread as I make progress, or stall in analysis paralysis like usual.

 

I don't recall my exact install costs for materials but I know the labor cost me a case of Sam Adams and 2 pizzas delivered. I definitely think you'll need a liner, otherwise the stove probably wouldn't draw correctly. Being in a masonry chimney, maybe you can get away with a single walled pipe- someone else will need to weigh in on that, but more to the point- for the install, I believe its a pretty straightforward DIY job.

 

Ok, thanks. The chimneys are inside a lumber frame, so I am guessing they are double walled already. The fireplaces are masonry and then they connect to the chimney above the flue. I hope I am getting this terminology correct.

 

Man that looks hardly, if ever used.
I'm not one to start telling someone else to do- and I hope some other guys can jump in with some better advice than I'm able to give, I did a little looking and the Quadra-Fire and Blaze King models are pricey- above 3K but that Napoleon is above 8K. Its absolutely none of my business what your finances are and what you're interested in spending, so that's something you'd need to take into consideration for yourself.
The thought that crosses my mind- and anyone jump in please and give a different view if you disagree with my assessment- It's been my understanding that a free standing wood stove would yield greater heat gains, or saying it another way, less loss, because of it being fully inside the home, whereas an insert maybe not so much because of its positioning being inside of a hearth. However if your hearth is timber framed.... I took down a wall to install my wood stove- maybe that's a consideration for you to at least check out the feasibility.
I have seen a couple pictures of installs on this site where someone had a wood framed insert, took it out and replaced it with a freestanding stove. However- if that is not something you feel like doing- ignore that option, because its your home and you're the one that needs to be happy with it- not anyone else.
Good luck! Keep us informed with what you decided, I for one am curious.

 

Insert install can be done by 2 handy people. A buddy helped me get my quadrafire 4100 into my fireplace opening, and then we installed the SS liner. Or did I install the liner on my own? It's not difficult, but you need to be handy.

 

Hmm...chimney is in a chase and you have a masonry fireplace? Sounds unlikely that it is a real masonry fireplace...probably a stone veneer with a prefab fireplace if my guess is right...have any pics?
Looking at this pic again (on a bigger screen, not my phone) this really looks like a prefab fireplace...if so you probably can't put a wood stove insert in it without tearing everything out and starting over. Most prefab fireplace manufacturers don't allow for a stove to be installed inside them...so against code...and dangerous to boot. There is usually lumber framing too close to the metal of the fireplace for solid fuel stove use. Plus there is no way to make a positive connection to the chimney with this setup (unless it has an 8" chimney, then it could be lined to 6", which most stoves run 6")
Hope I'm wrong about all this...oh, and welcome to FHC!
Now how is your wood supply?

 

Well, I crawled into the fireplace to check it out, and found a concealed nameplate, you are absolutely correct. The sellers told me the fireplaces were rated for cordwood when I bought the house. The chimney runs right next to my sons bedroom. I can’t thank you enough for pointing that out!!! My ignorance could have taken the greatest toll.

As for my wood supply, I guess it doesn’t matter now that I have to do significant renovation just to install any wood burning machine. But I have 10 acres of 20-30 year old mixed hardwoods with some good standing dead, and about two face cords split. I just moved here from 1200 miles away last year, and I didn’t know about seasoning recommendations until recently.

Back to the drawing board on my wood powered heat plans. I guess I will look into a wood furnace and installing woodstoves now that construction is required for any solution.

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

Brenndy with the save!!

 

FYI, that VF100 you mentioned earlier is a good one

Yes, good idea to get wood CSS (cut/split/stacked) now so you have actual dry (not "seasoned") wood to burn once you get things installed.

A couple general suggestions.
Use double wall "class A" chimney pipe, installed interior to the house if you can pull it off.
If installing a stove, for best results go with something free standing and place it as central as you can in the house.

 

They still could be...you will have to run the info that is on the ID tag you found to see what they say...but even if they are rated for cordwood, that is only if burning in the fireplace as designed by the OEM...as soon as you slide an insert in there, it becomes an illegal and dangerous install. Seems counter-intuitive I know but I have had this convo with a chimney pro/stove installer a time or two and turns out it really does make sense once the details of it all are explained...which right now I don't remember the particular details that clinched it for me...but I do remember it seemed legit.
The one that does come to mind right now is the chimney connection issue that I mentioned earlier...

 

I found the full manual, it’s a Desa GM42, so it has stainless interior wall and galvanized exterior. They say it’s rated for wood, but the company has been out of business since 2008 so I can’t ask about anything else. What a waste of money to install these things. I have two in the same chase in my house.

 

I would recommend not hurrying into any decision as of right now- if you're just moving in, allow yourself to get settled. The best advice that comes to mind for me would be to heed what brenndatomu alluded to with getting a good wood supply in order- even if you're not going to burn this year, any wood you cut, split and stack will get you ahead of the game potentially for the future. The next piece would be to see what sort of secondary market exists for these fireplace install kits. Someone somewhere wants to just have a fireplace in their house for the look, so perhaps you could get some of that money back and get someone else the fireplace they may have always wanted.
My father-in-law buys the duraflame logs for the two or three fires he burns a year. This whole lifestyle for us is just a hobby for others, and that's ok.
But back to your particular set up- perhaps you're in an even better situation now than you might have thought you were in before- because while you're not going to be putting an insert into the existing spot, perhaps you can find a stove you really want for style and gives you the performance you desire.
The pellet stove idea isn't a bad idea either.

 

I leafed through the manual real quick...found this on page 2. Sounds like you could put an insert in if you can find one that actually tested a Desa GM42...