Is it ok to be both a lover of Fisher and All nighter smoke dragons?

I know the story of fisher and all nighter, luckily none of it is personal for me or my family. I grew up with both,loved them both,fed them both,cleaned them both and just recently was lucky enough to come across a few of them for my house,garage and shop.Mama bear,mid moe and BIG MOE. I am a typical parent and love them equally. I'm not sure if I'm posting this right on a thread or not but I want to hear people's thoughts using these beasts this day and age. I keep reading that they are illegal and all because of the 88 clean air act and stupid insurance companies, I can say ALOT of folks I know around my area use a garden variety of them all, I see no problem in that.........thoughts?

 

Welcome to the site Metalman. Great site and great people. I assume with your screen name that you maybe do metal working? If so check out our blacksmithing thread.

"Backyard Blacksmithing" pounding iron on the forge this evening!

 

I had to jump three hoops but got mine approved by my insurance company. I love my Fisher Mama bear easy stove to keep the house a nice and toasty 80°.

 

Welcome to the club Metalman. Great bunch of folks on here. Lots of great knowledge and wisdom.
I have the Papa Bear at my woodshop and my Mama has the mama bear heating her house. She also has the one with two doors on the front, 8" pipe out the back, I don't know which model that is, in her basement, not used.
They just burn more wood than newer stoves.

 

Thanks everyone, I love the info and all the topics here. I have felt very alone with my obsession with these old woodstoves offline. Alot of people around me have these dragons but the conversation stops at that. Like I mentioned I grew up with fisher and all nighters. Today is day 4 with my big moe in the basement. I had a yotul olso 500 down there and it heated very well BUT I had to fill it every 5 to 6 hours to keep the house warm. That got old fast. It's about 26 degrees in northern vt right now and the basement,1st floor and second floor (3600+sqft) is nice and toasty! Can't beat warm floors!! I love the long burns, I'm not worried about waking up in the middle of the night to fill the stove.

 

I heat my house with an original grandpa bear, installed in '83 and heating ever since.
It's a great stove, but it consumes almost 6 cords of wood a season .
I really want to replace it with a cat stove and cut my consumption, but I'm just the caretaker for this property and the board has to approve it.

 

Also my understanding is as long as there is a ul tag on the stove it should be fine insurance wise?

 

My uncle still has and uses his grandma bear. In fact a few years ago he paid 700 some odd dollars to to have it completely redone.
If you burn dry wood, a smoke Dragon does not pollute a whole lot more. The problem is most people don't know what dry wood is! I've cleaned his chimney, almost no creosote mostly fly ash!

You will burn more fuel than the newer efficient cat stoves.
Welcome to the FHC Metalman.

 

Does anyone have a clue about vermont rules?

 

Uncle lives in Sharon..
I burned an old smoke dragon its more insurance company than state rules.. So far..

 

Ok here we go, I bought my house 3 yrs ago. It has a fireplace on 1st floor. We have an econoburn wood boiler gasification unit, it heats up 3 big tanks in the basement. Two 500 gallon tanks and a 400 gallon tank. And a woodstove in the upper garage, that was homemade by the way.That's what my insurance company knows about. Theres a mid moe up there to take place of homemade woodstove.Now I have had some issues with the econoburn, it has two fan speeds I believe a high and low. I cannot get the high speed one to work so because of that I cannot get my hot water tanks above 150, should be 185 to 190 degrees. So I disconnected the unit for now and plugged my jotul 500 into the chimney so I could heat the house and I use the #2 fuel oil furnace to heat the domestic water. I hate burning oil, hate it. So now the jotul was doing pretty decent but filling a woodstove every 5 or 6 hours is a pain. So I got a big moe and set that up. Burns ALL NIGHT! I have been told by people that changing out one wood burner to another is no big deal to the insurance company, I know I should call them (dreading that) and ask but I figured I would toss that info out here on FHC and see what people have to say. Thanks guys

 

Is there anyone out there that has a big moe with the flue atop the stove instead of behind ?

 

I had a mid-Moe, it was a great stove. I put a baffle in it, and was convinced it helped it burn better.

It had a UL tag on it; for insurance I am pretty sure that is the key point, plus proper installation.

 

Awesome day today, picked up a mama bear and a papa bear!! Super excited!! I LOVE my smoke dragons!!

 

To answer a few of your questions;
To my knowledge, All-Nighter didn't make a top vent stove. They were built with extremely short legs to fit under a mantel in an existing hearth and use the existing chimney flue, hence the rear outlet. The NFPA Standard has two sets of criteria for manufacture of stoves. One with 6 inch minimum legs and one for higher bottom clearance. That is the standards the appliance has to be built to. All-nighter with under the minimum limit is fine installed on a non-combustible surface, such as cement basement floor or solid masonry or stone hearth. They are not for use with floor protectors since floor protection is calculated with the 6 inch minimum height legs. That is the difference between the two manufacturers as far as installation.

Vermont has adopted the 2015 International Building Code.
Vermont - ICC

This is known as the International "Family of Codes". However, they are one of he few states that have not adopted the Mechanical Code from this set of codes. The Mechanical Code is where you will find installation and venting of solid fuel burning appliances and chimneys. So NFPA 211 governs your installation. The Building Codes simply adopt NFPA Standards, and the main difference is the Mechanical Code ADDS "All appliances must be UL Listed" where the NFPA Standard has a section for installing unlisted appliances. That's not saying some insurance companies may still want to see a UL tag. Any existing installation of a pre UL appliance is grandfathered. So it is difficult to impossible to prove when a stove was installed unless the governing body has paperwork showing there was no appliance installed.

The derogatory phrase "smoke dragon" was due to people firing the stoves and closing the air down overnight to extend the burn, causing more than necessary smoke. A baffle, properly seasoned wood, and proper operation prevents unnecessary smoke particles. After initial firing, you should only have a light haze from the chimney, not dense smoke. An EPA stove up to temp will be smoke free during the secondary burn phase. Starting any stove cold will smoke the same until up to temp. Burning an EPA Certified stove incorrectly makes them just as much of a "smoke dragon" as an older pre EPA stove. Matter of fact, if you ignite the secondary burn and leave it unattended, and lose the secondary burn, (not babysitting it long enough or damp / not fully seasoned wood), it will smolder worse than a non EPA stove. Smoke Dragon is a term for the operator, not the stove.