Getting started in chain grinding

Great post sir!

I started out using 60/30/0 on stihl chains. Then I got to an Oregon and did 55/30/0 and noticed it felt like it had more hook. When I say felt, I mean with my booger hook AKA finger.

So I did a stihl chain at 55/30/0 and noticed the same thing. So that's what I did the others at.

Can you tell me the benefits or drawbacks of using the tilt?

When I finally got to use the saw, I ran a 55* stihl with Rakers Down .030. It cut as good or better than a new chain Imo.

Btw....that customer chain. Ho. Lee. Chit. That's baaaaaaaaaad.

 

I get where people say that they can get chains "sharper" by hand than on a machine. Of course you can file a cutter to angles that will give you razor sharpness for a fast Cutting fragile edge with reduced durability. Thing is over many years of cutting wood with others I've noticed that the "faster, sharper......." guys cut less wood. I use Stihl 33rm ground to RS angles. Sharpen/ touch up after every tank ? Heck no, how much did I cut in that 5 minutes alone ? Durability has some distinct advantages.

 

Let me start by saying I am not the type to "toot my own horn". I'm a firewood hack, but I don't think it's all that hard to beat a ground chain. I had someone send me some sq gr loops of different angles.

And timed them against my "play"chain (rear most loop).

And the guys that are very good a fast chain completely blow me outta the water.

 

I touch up once a day.Some days not at all. 30+ years in the woods you learn some tricks to keep your chain outta the chit.

 

Become one with the end of the bar young grasshopper..........

 

The tilt is supposed to make the chain self feed/cut better.....it makes the cutting point “sharper”....experiment with it see what ya think....just remember small things like how deeply you grind into the tooth can totally effect the top-plate face angle and side plate.....there are a lot of small things to consider....I would start with a “basic” setting that cuts good, and then slowly change one thing at a time and see how it works....I cut hardwood mostly, so sharp to me and sharp to a guy that cuts softwood are 2-totally different things...

Using the word “sharp” when talking about chainsaw chains is like talking about a “sharp” wood chisel....I like to think about a “working” chain like a wood chisel.....with a wood chisel you don’t sharpen it to much or there will be no support/strength in the cutting edge.....

It seems sometimes people get “race” Chains and work Chains mixed up....you are either timing a cut or you want a working chain that cuts great but is also durable....

 

bocefus78 while I am thinking about it and before I forget, lol.....I wanted to make sure you know the 60-degree head tilt on the Oregon grinder and 60-degree head tilt in the USG are 2-totally different measurements!!!!

My work bench is an absolute mess, but I have the USG and Oregon 520 mounted side by side so maybe I will go snap a pic so it’s easy to see what I mean....

 

With round filing . Good consistent hand filing can be very good.
But chisel filing can be done every bit as good and sometimes better than the best chisel grinding.
It takes a long time and hundreds of feet of chain to get that good.
Then once a guy gets that good , hardening of the cornea starts setting in and its hard to focus on the point.
Grinding is just a lot easier.

 

When you get so good hand filing that the top plate is concave like a beaver tooth ,,,, you have reached "logger hook" nirvana !

 

It seems sometimes people get “race” Chains and work Chains mixed up....you are either timing a cut or you want a working chain that cuts great but is also durable....[/QUOTE]
A Sharp “work” chain is what I go for ... a chain that cuts ALOT of wood very quickly and Lasts long time ... that being said you can spend hours on a hand-filed “race” chain that’ll cut like a mo-fo for 1/2 dozen cuts ... all depends what u want/need !

 

Every time I invest any additional care in sharpening or even spin a loop of RS it's a sure sign I'm going to find something. Being a fence row and yard tree junkie has made that all to clear.

 

I think the reason most guys say a filed chain will out cut a ground chain is because most people think you set the angles on the grinder and grind your way around the chain and that is it. It takes some experimenting to get good with a grinder. Most people are expecting filing to be harder so they stick with it. Also a lot of people when they file use some kind of jig/ guide. You can't go comparing a round ground work chain to a square filed race chain and say you can file better. That is not apples to apples. I've seen the results from some of these chain races were they had a stock chain in it and the stock chain actually did very good, beating several people. If you cut for a living or to make a little money on the side you will quickly find out that filing eats of a lot of time and grinding chains is way faster, even for a touch up. I've had my grinder for close to 2 years and I am still trying different things.

 

4 hours, that was my goal every day. To get 4 near perfect hours on a grind or file job. . If I got a whole 6 1/2 hours on a chain and it was still cutting great. I would still change to a fresh chain and grind or file the day old chain that evening. . A boss I had would say , they get dull overnight.
That's saw running trigger time .

 

Just for the record, I was referencing hand square to square ground and which is faster (not more durable). Moot point really, I know but just pointing out it doesn't take years of experience to be proficient enough to do it. I haven't used a double bevel for "hundreds of feet" but I beat some nicely ground stuff (again, no ego here) in a 3 cut comparo.

 

Square-ground seems to be about 20-25% quicker than round ... what I have found however is that it takes MORE torque/hp to achieve those gains ... if I can get 10 face-cord of wood out of a square or round grind chain quickly ; I’m a happy camper ! Your mileage may vary !!!

 

Thought I would post this, some might not understand the jargon:

Understanding Cutter Teeth On Pro Saw Chain


Professional Saw Chain -
Understanding Cutter Teeth

In the Pacific Northwest, there is one type of saw chain that most professional chain saw users use: square-ground chisel bit. To fully understand why so many professional saw users prefer this chain, you must first understand some basics about chain saw cutter teeth.

Cutter Tooth Shapes
There are two basic shapes of cutter teeth. One style we call: round, and the other we call: square. The images below show these basic shapes. The one on the left is round or "chipper" cutter tooth. The image in the middle is a square or "chisel" cutter tooth. Both are sharpened round. The tooth on the right is also square tooth, but it has been ground "square." This language may be a little confusing, but a study the images below should make these differences understandable. They depict all the basic shapes and grinds that are made.


Which Cutter Is Best?
The answer to this really depends on you. Factors like the saw you run, the work you do, how you sharpen you chain, and so on, all play a part in determining which cutter is best. The following highlights characteristics of each type:

1. Round Chain - This chain is the easiest to sharpen. An average user can do it with a round file and have good results. It also has the best stay-sharp-ability of the three cutter teeth. Its cutting edge is more durable that those on either square tooth chain. This can be explained by the fact that the edge on a round cutter tooth is larger and better supported.
2. Square Tooth Round Ground - This chain cuts 10-15% faster than round chain on most saws. Since it takes less power for a sharp square cutter tooth to sever wood fiber, square tooth chain almost always improves a saw's cutting performance. This chain can also be sharpened with a round file, so it is fairly easy to maintain for an average user. While it outperforms round cutters when it is sharp, its stay-sharp-ability is not as good.
3. Square Tooth Square Ground - This chain cuts 20-25% better than round chain. A square ground chisel cutter tooth is the most efficient of the three. It offers the best cutting performance of all the cutter teeth when it is sharp. This chain can be sharpened with a special file, but most pro users sharpen it with a special square grinder. It is not a chain that is easy to maintain for an average user. Its stay-sharp-ability is also the least of the three styles of cutter teeth.

Our Advice

1. If you are a professional timber faller working in the Pacific Northwest or Alaska, use square ground chisel chain.
2. If you use square ground chisel chain, buy a chisel grinder or become friends with someone who owns one. Filing square ground chisel chain is very difficult. Few people do it well. Of those who can file it, most would do an even better job if they had a grinder.
3. If you cut cedar, salvage, or work in dirty conditions, use round chain. It is easier to sharpen and will hold its edge better for you.
4. If you are working in clean wood and want the best cutting performance, but can't afford a square grinder, use round ground chisel chain. This chain performs well, is fairly easy to sharpen with a file, and will out-cut poorly filed square chisel chain every time.

 

I agree with you 94BULLITT well put....

When I first got a grinder i planned on only using it for just rocked out Chains and to get all the teeth the same length......I ALWAYS hand filed and thought it was the best way.....

We’ll sure enough I got to using the grinder and started to like it....I learned that small things like how low or high you grind into the tooth can change the profile tremendously....after the first few chains I thought wow, with some more effort/practice I bet I can easily get a chain to cut as good or better than out of the box!!!!

You made a great point when you said there is more to it that just grinding and using it like a chop saw lol.....just like any other tool, the tool is only as good as the operator....

 

On my Tecomec grinder, I accidentally found that using the same grind for chisel on semi chisel made for a fine cutting chain. That being 55/25/10.

 

None of mine have hook?

 

For a few years now I have been using mostly Stihl RM chain. Using the angles like you would for RS to maybe just a little bit "hookier" I have found that it cuts pretty close to factory RS in the beginning but continues to cut well long after RS looses it's point. It does make a bit more sawdust mixed in with the chips because of the radius, and of course it takes a little more power to run. The real advantages are that rarely does it get damaged and it lasts a long time.