Production Woodstock IS

Thought I would post this up for any of you purchasing a new stove from Woodstock. I haven't seen this posted yet.
When I called them about some dimensions for shipping and setting up my venting a couple weeks ago, they initially didn't have a pdf copy of the owners manual. Then Lorin looked into it for me and she sent me an electronic copy the next day.
This is a great resource if you are waiting for your stove to be ready.

 

Interesting. I gave this method a try this morning as it's Saturday and I'd be around to watch what happens. The stove front temp was 350 by the time the air setting was backed down to notch 3. It held there for about two hours and has been slowly but steadily climbing since then. No visible flame in he firebox. Let's see what the next 8 hours hold.

 

I am still yearning for a combuster probe setup (design and tested by Woodstock). Not that the pioneers here who have done it wrong or anything. I admire the thermocouple and MyIS's temperature devices, but await the stove maker's designed probe setup. Just so I can quit running outside to view the chimney for validation of cat function. Has anyone heard anything?

 

Yeah, we are really going OFFTOPIC. I will start a 'conversation' with you on this forum and we can discuss this further, and I will invite anyone who is interested to join and read along (and of course, participate if he / she wants to do so); it is not a secret, I just think it would bore most people and clog up this thread.

Brian

 

Temperature does not indicate whether a woodstove is producing smoke or not. I often see my stove burning clean as the proverbial whistle with the cat. at 800F, and dirty with the area above the cat. at higher temperatures. Unfortunately, to see if the stove is smoking, you really need to look at or sample the flue gasses coming out of it.

Brian

 

With the draft that far closed, and the temp. of the stove increasing, you are in a pure 'cat. burn'. The firebox will almost certainly be coated with creosote as well as the glass but later, when it cools down, take a look under the top plate and I bet everything is there is light gray and there is absolutely no creosote. You should also have very low stack (exhaust) temperatures. If the stove is full of hardwood, it will burn longer than 8 hours set like that too although the temp. will peak, hold for a long while and then slowly drop off. Each one of us has to determine when "the burn" is over but there will be warm coals in the ashes for at least 72 hours or more although the stove will be cold to the touch.

For what it is worth, the is the most efficient way to run a woodstove, getting the most heat possible out of a specific volume of wood.

Brian

 

Not directly about any temperature reading devices but in a left- handed way: Woodstock is up to their proverbial eyeballs making stoves. Which would normally be thought of as good news as I wish them the best but I think they are really somewhat overwhelmed. Just my personal opinion but I think it will be a long wait for a Woodstock made temperature made or supplied device.

Not sure why you would prefer one from Woodstock but really, an electronic thermocouple and readout would be best; you can watch the temperature change in seconds rather than minutes and see what the cat. is doing long before it stalls (and stop that from happening).

Brian

 

What are you using for a Thermo couple? I have a Snap On Vantage Pro lab scope and thought about rigging this up so I could graph some readings. Is your Thermo couple hooked to a meter or laptop?

 

I had some warmer temps this afternoon so I let the stove run out, when it was cool this afternoon I took a peek to see how things were (it's been about a month since the last check)
The first pic shows that I'm catching up with some of you, pieces of scaled steel have fallen on top of the cat. As I know some of you have had much worse scaling than this, the following pic of the cat had me more concerned.

This is the scaling of the bottom side of the radiator, hard to see the actual chips straight on.

This is the underside of the cat, the side that faces down towards the stove. The top right hand corner (as it sits in place) had some buildup covering the cat's 'honeycomb'. It was brownish in color and sort of cakey looking. It brushed right off without any problem, turned to dust when I blew some air through it.

This is all the parts returned to the sled. As I'm shooting the picture downwards you may be able to see the bypass rod (closest to the gasket) has warped. It's hard to see any curvature in this pic but to the naked eye it seems more significant.

 

What is plugging your cat? I didn't see that.

 

Not sure. I uploaded the pics from the iphone first and then typed the captions to the pics on the ipad.

 

I agree with you. Or a method that works better than the surface therms and what I did. Since mine is not over the cat far enough, I don't think I get decent readings. And the other thing is that I'm using two magnets to 'sort of' hold the probe into place. If the probe was any longer it would have scraped the cat as the sled moved backwards. I may abandon this at the end of the season and see what else comes up either here (with you guys) or WS.

 

That confuses me a good bit. Not having a cat probe, I've been using the front magnetic thermo as a general indication of whether my cold start or reload process is working to start the cat. Its reaction is delayed by a thick steel wall between the thermo and cat. I have managed to stall the cat by engaging the sled and turning down the intake too soon (operator error more likely cat failure-to-launch). I think a probe would help me determine when to close the sled, when to reduce intake to ensure cat activity.
I am seeing smoke from the chimney at times I thought the cat was active. The last flue brushing yielded 3 cups of black flake but maybe that was due
to frequent shoulder season cold starts. We have the new quiet cat air valve and I wonder if the cat gets less air now. I have cleaned the combuster 3 times and the wood is all under 20%. Just trying to find out why I get smoke...

 

I agree with you Brian. I don't think WS will put the time into something they don't really need to produce. If they do make a project out of it I believe it will be outsourced to a vendor like Condar who will make the cat thermometer to fit this particular model. This will eliminate WS from any warranty issues or guarantee.

Something simple like a thermocouple with a digital read-out sounds sensible as long as the cost is reasonable.

 

I am using custom thermocouples from Omega, and sheathing the ones in the stove with 316 stainless steel tubing.

I am using a microcontroller to monitor the thermocouples. It makes a nice setup and provides saved data in adjustable increments but would probably be most costly than most people would be interested in spending. That said, anyone can buy a commercial thermocouple and a relatively inexpensive readout for it- this would yield temperatures almost instantly and in resolution to one degree F. I find this very handy when setting the stove because you know the effect the adjustment is having while you are doing it rather than finding out 10 minutes later after the cat. stalls.

Brian

 

I think some of us (new production IS owners) may be interested in that. I paid $25 plus shipping for the condar cat therm with a 6.5" probe and it's really not that reliable.

 

The burning of the flue gasses in the cat. is not just a matter of temperature, it is dependent on how fast the gasses are moving through the cat. (closing the draft on a cat. just starting to light often ignites them and the temp. of the cat will skyrocket) as well as how much water vapor is going through the cat. For example: once the load of wood is well- charred and involved, most of the moisture has been driven off; this is why it takes some time to "light the cat." because the water vapor coming off a fresh load of fuel is preventing the catalytic reaction from happening. Even very dry firewood has a fair amount of water in it and that is always driven off in the first stage of the fire. Once the fuel conditions are good, then closing the draft will usually drive the temp. of the firebox down, slow the speed of the gasses passing through the stove and this provides the ideal set of conditions for excellent cat. function. Conversely, when a cat. first lights and is engaged, causing a large increase in the air passing through the stove either through the draft proper or, say, by cracking the door will often extinguish the cat. while it drives the temps. of the firebox up.

And finally, because this is a hybrid stove, once a slow, steady burn is established with a hot cat, opening the draft will at some point light the secondaries which in turn immediately drops the temp. above the cat. as the secondaries are now burning most or all of the fuel the cat. was using a moment before.

Believe it or not, there is a fair amount of chemistry going on in a woodstove. Collecting more data can actually lead to less understanding and confusion. But an electronic based, fast and sensitive cat. probe is a good idea I think for any cat. stove, especially if the owner wants to run it more slowly and efficiently than at 1/2 draft opening or larger.

Brian

 

Wow, that is a fair amount of ash in that combustor after a month of running. Mine was very clean a couple of weeks ago after running the stove 24/7 since Oct. Wonder why yours is doing that?

Just thought of it: I did have a lot of very fine fly ash above the combustor.... makes me wonder if my combustor looked like yours but my draft inducer sucked it through the cat.? That thing does create quite a bit of air movement and I do occasionally use it with the bypass closed. Hmmmmm.

Brian

 

An electronic readout and thermocouple will be quite considerably more than that in cost.

Let me poke around and see what I can come up with. The two most useful temperature readings I find are just above the cat. of course but also a probe mounted in the flue pipe. Good news there as cheap Chinese thermocouples can be had for that purpose and they work quite well (thermocouples work on physics, not careful manufacture, and they can be made with a hammer in the basement really).

But quickly, if you start the stove and run the flue temp. up to some number, then close the draft down to 1/2 and wait for the flue to again approach the magic number, you can then close the bypass and damp the stove with almost certainty that the combustor will light. Takes a lot of the guess work out of it. And the cat. temp. probe is most useful on a hot reload: you will know in about 45 seconds after the reload if the cat. is still lit and burning with the bypass closed. I think it would eliminate a lot of creosote production and make it easier to run a woodstove, at least it does for me. The downside to all of this is of course cost as well as the installation of the parts; not hard to do but not as easy as sticking magnetic thermometers on stuff either. By the way, I have a magnetic thermometer on my stove pipe right next to the thermocouple probe and I can say with certainty, the stove pipe wall thermometer is about useless in running the stove- it just does not respond fast enough to be useful. It is fine for reading the temps. once the stove is damped down and running steadily for a long time but at that point who really cares what the stack temp. is anyway.

Brian

 

I was wondering what temps you are normally running at, and measured where?
When was your stove put into use? just wondering, I am just starting the learning curve on mine.
Trying to figure out what to expect in the future, this thread has gotten so long its kind of tough wandering thru the various posts
Thanks Keith