WS Ideal Steel or BK Ashford for me?

Agreed about the three types of burn but not the three distinct stages; combustible gasses are produced throughout the entire burn as evidenced by elevated temperatures after the cat. as compared with the temp. before the cat. during any burn.

The actual wood burning phase puts out the majority of the heat with the coals burning producing relatively little by comparison. This is easily seen by the weight of the two materials; wood is far denser than the charcoal it leaves behind and the heat of woodburning comes from that initial mass. Just as an example, a stove might hold 80 lb. of well seasoned hardwood but once that wood has turned entirely to charcoal, there are not many pounds of charcoal. So the initial burning of the wood itself, combined with the burning of the gasses that the wood generates, make up the majority of the heat output of wood.

Brian

 

I'd go with the Ashford, just because I like the looks better

 

Weight vs BTU's? Some of the highest energy sources in the world are also the lightest objects in the world. Your also forgetting about the gasses that are re-burned via the cat, during the coaling stage. I don't know exactly why scientifically my PH gives off the most heat in the coaling stage for the longest period of time, especially additively, but it does. Possibly the smoke/gasses coming off of burning coals has more energy in it than the smoke for the wood before coals? Or they just burn hotter in the cat? Or maybe it's just all the heat given off all those red hot coals spread out in the box?

 

I agree with this for the most part. If WS built a fireview in the 3 cubic foot range it would probably burn similar to the BK stoves on low. The hybrid stoves don't burn low like a cat only stove. Don't you think manufactures would love to boast about 24hr plus burn times on low if they could obtain it? How many Progress or IS owners have posted about 24 hr+ burn times on low during the shoulder season without having the cat stall or mess with the primary air?

Don't get me wrong the WS stoves are some of the best around but we all know they don't burn low like a BK stove.

 

From last winter, with our Beta Ideal Steel:

FHC Exclusive! Long low oak burn in the new Ideal Steel stove

Reader's Digest version:


I built a fire yesterday at 3:00pm with the 3.2cu ft soapstone lined firebox solidly packed with 3"x6" oak blocks that were on average 10"-12" in length, EW load, moisture content 10 to 14%. Cold stove, 2" bed of ashes.

I lit the firestarters at 3:00pm on full air, room temp at 68, outside temp 37. I let the flue temps on my Bacharach probe thermometer on the double wall stove pipe get up to about 600 degrees, then engaged the cat at about 15 minutes into the burn on 100% air. After an hour stove top temps were at 475 next to the collar on top, and room temps went up from 68 to 72. I turned the air down to about 10% at one hour for a long low burn.

Two hours into burn on 10% air, not much visible activity in firebox, stove top temps have leveled out around 350. There is a hot spot just above the middle of the door on the front of the stove just below the lift off top that is consistently running around 450 on the IR thermometer. Most of the heat from this stove comes off the door glass and the top front, not the top rear near the flue collar.

There's a little soot on the bottom left corner of the door glass, and the bimetallic coil for pre cat air is just a little open now. Outside temps now 35, room temps up to 74 from 68 at 3:00.

Five hours into burn, the two pieces on top front were a piece I split in half longways to load up to the top of the firebox in the front. One of them just started to coal and a piece broke off but the rest of the logs are still 95% intact.


Almost 8 hours into burn, house furnace had been off all day. Outside temp was 21 at this point, 71 in the stove room now and throughout the first floor. 68 on the second floor.

Stove top temp staying right at 300 on 10% air. Hot spot over door at 380. Double wall stove pipe probe thermometer sticking on 380.

At nine hours since I started this burn cycle, the air was still at 10% but stove top temps had creeped up to 325 , the hot spot on the front above the door is up to 400, and I'm seeing more of a glow but no flames in the stove. I wonder if the colder temps outside were increasing draft? Outdoor temp was down to 19 at this point and first floor temp had dropped to 69, second floor temp to 68.


At just shy of 10 hours into the burn, stove top temps settled down to 305, room temps holding at 69, outside temps were holding at 19 and the video above shows the firebox.




17 hours into this burn cycle this morning. I expected to come downstairs to a cold stove and a firebox full of ash. But stove top temp was 225 and the hot spot on the top front of the stove was 300 and I was still getting plenty of usable heat. The firebox looked like it was still a third to half full of wood. I wasn't sure if it was just coals ready to collapse into a heap of ash so I opened up the air to 100%. In the past when I've done that on a bed of coals the coals glowed and got hotter but I've never gotten flames. This time I got flames. I took photos before and after opening the air, as well as a quick video about 5 minutes after opening the air to 100%. To say I was surprised is an understatement.

I had the house furnace thermostat set on 65. With a low of 19 last night, it was too cold for a long low burn to keep inside temps where we like them, and the furnace kicked on sometime after 6:00am this morning. So current inside temps don't mean anything at this point. I cut back the thermostat to see how the stove carries the temps from this point forward.

At 10:30, 19 1/2 hours into the burn. Stove top temps are at 225, top front of stove is at 325 and this thing is definitely still throwing usable heat. This is a quick video of the firebox with the door open. It started sending up some small flames when I opened the door. Still usable fuel in there. I opened up the air to 100% at this point to see if it would heat up to any extent at this point in the burn. After 20 minutes on 100% air, at approx 20 hours into this burn, stove top temps climbed back up to 325, front of stove above door is at 350 and there are small flames in the firebox.

21 hours into the burn cycle. I opened up the air to 100% almost an hour prior (once I passed 20 hour mark in this test I figured I accomplished my goal) to burn it down and make some heat. Stove top temp was back up to 330, top front of stove above door is at 390, probe temp on the double wall stove pipe is 500, and its throwing off a lot of heat again, with some fire in the firebox now, not just coals. Room temp is back up to 71 with no assist from the natural gas furnace for the last couple hours, outside temp is 30.


22 hours into burn cycle, outside temp 33, first floor 74, second floor 70, stove on 100% air for just over 2 hours. Stove top temp 300, stove front above door 350, still pumping out more than enough heat. Coals are burning down slowly but steadily, no active flames in firebox now.

This stove took the house from 70 to 74 in two hours, from the 20 hour to 22 hour point in a burn cycle. That is pretty impressive!

23 hours into this burn, stove top has dropped to 290, top front of stove is at 325, outside temp is at 34, and first floor of the house is still holding at 74. We don't need to reload just yet, there's still a lot of usable heat coming off this stove.



Ok, currently at the 24 hour mark on this burn, stove top temp is down to 265, top front of stove is 280, first floor temp is still holding at 74 so there's still enough heat coming off the stove at 24 hours to maintain an inside temp of 74 while outside temp is currently 34.

 

Brian, at what you referred to as 10 % do you know what notch that would be on the production version?

 

I remembered your stove did it messing with the air. That's why I asked how many have done it without turning the air up. You also did this during cold weather where the chimney pulls better. Has anyone consistently reported 24 hour burns during the shoulder season(reduced chimney draft weather)with good ole cord wood?

In reality none of this matters for the OP, both stoves will heat just fine.

 

Other than BK stoves with their air control system, I think everyone who owns a wood stove has to adjust their air.

Outside temps were in the low thirties. That's not exactly "cold" weather, but not exactly shoulder season either.

(BK fan boys. )

 

A 3 CF Fireview would kick some serious azz.

 

#3?

I'm pretty sure they changed the air intake considerably from my early Beta stove. Honestly I don't know if that low of an air setting still exists on these stoves. Woodstock was pretty surprised when I documented this burn. They had not attempted anything like it at that point in their testing.

And just for fun: 16 hour burn cycle in Woodstock's Ideal Steel stove in one minute

 

More WS fan boys here than BK fan boys. I read your post having a low of 19*, I guess I need to re-read it.

 

Seriously!!

 

I'm getting early onset Oldztimers, I better go re-read my own post. (I can't remember what I ate for breakfast, so I certainly can't remember all those details.)

WS fanboys have needed a safe place to call home for a long while...

 

And for my own greedy needs, an IS with a blower and its really affordable price (way cheaper than a BK in my area) Would make my life easier than having to chase down two used Princess stoves for my set up.

If I can't find a Princess or two, I am seriously thinking about having my neighbor, who is an iron worker, work up a rear heat shield that I can attach a blower to for the IS.

 

By the way, I drew the 75%, 50%, 25% marks with 3 hashmarks in between on my ash lip with a pencil early on. Tom at Woodstock liked it in my photos, so they started cutting them into the ash lip in later Beta models and the production model. Shows how much Woodstock values their customers' input.

 

The price point on the IS with the tech it has in it is great. Keep an eye out in your search for a Princess insert, I've been looking for one to install in my fireplace.

 

I'm in for the Woodstock equinox.

 

Just order the IS rear heat shield and modify it. Here's mine. How difficult would it be?

 

Will do. I search the entire country, and I have come across a few several months ago. They disappear super quick during the winter.

 

It will need some work. More space between the shield and the stove will be needed. Also, the top of the shield needs to extend above the stove top and curve over the stove top to promote air flow going across the top of the stove.

But, with some spacers and some welding, that might be a good starting point.