Anyone burning the progress hybrid in this subzero snap?

It's always enjoyable reading everyone's setup and techniques.

I probably shouldn't have canceled the order when the progress came out, the price has increased quite a bit since!

 

Yup, I'm calling the air supply control the damper.

I can (and normally do) avoid all/any backpuffs by not closing the air all the way, but also give up the cat-only burn in the process. Not a problem in the cold weather, but in warmer weather there is still something weird/crazy about a firebox with no flames that is pumping out steady heat. Probably just the kid in me.

The PH air control is fine, but is not on par with the IS control. When I'm thinking of ways to alter the PH control, it is to gain better control (finer, more precise control), as opposed actually blocking off. My first movement of the air control level on a reload is from wide open to half closed. I'd like it to get to the half closed state with the first 25% of motion, and then have the rest of the range of motion to gradually close down more, like the IS does.

I wasn't sure if the air at the bottom front came in through the primary or secondary, but I think of it as secondary because its purpose is for the very low, slow burns. I occasionally put the ash vac onto the hole to try getting ash that has fallen in. The IS has stronger flow from each of its two holes than the PH does from the one.

We are on a 2-week cat cleaning schedule in to heavy burning time of the year due to ash build-up. It isn't clogged, but you can easily detect decreased airflow when closing the bypass as compared to when it is clean. Just a quick vacuum/brushing. (we do have the ash pan, and have the newest style of the screen in place)

 

OFFTOPIC: Just a thought but a friend of mine has two Jotuls, a 500 (large stove) and a much smaller one in the far corner, family room of the house. They work very nicely together and they are sized pretty well for where they are located (the larger of the two could be even bigger really). But he has a problem no one saw coming: he needs two different sizes of firewood to feed the two stoves. He has said repeatedly that if he had to do it all over again, he would either eliminate the smaller stove or put a large enough stove where the small one is to take 'normal', full- sized splits.

I know you mentioned having wood sized for the PH. If you get another stove that takes smaller wood, that could turn into a never- ending irritant all through the cutting / splitting / stacking / bringing wood into the house process due to having to keep the two sizes of wood separate throughout.

Again, just a thought.

Brian

 

Stayed on this thread a ridiculously long time last night. then fell asleep during the last few minutes of a multi-hour coal burn down. Not a good move. Very cold out (0 F when I awoke at 7:30), the firebed down to small coals with one or two larger. Cleaned the ash out of the stove, took it outside, brought some ash in. Put an 8 in rnd of sugar and a half round the same size of ironwood, couple of ash splits, then some sugar splinters. Now about 8 AM. The splinters ignited immediately, all the wood within minutes. Shut everything down except the air, which I left at about 1/4. By 8:15 the stove was about 425. By 8:30 or so it was 525 with a flue temp of 820, a good fire going. I shut the air all the way. The temp has stabilized at 525, the flue is down to just over 600, and I have beautiful very slow rolling blue secondaries with no flame off the wood. A lovely burn. It is getting warm in here. Was warmer upstairs than down when I awoke. 54 down here at 7:30. It is now 68, about an hour after I started the present fire.

Love this stove.

 

Interesting post above about running two stoves, last night I loaded at 10:00 PM with a full load of Oak, engaged 5 minutes later, had air cut back to .25 5 minutes later. Just loaded at 11:00 AM to find the stove at 200 with plenty of coals for a relight. Maybe a keystone or another fireview would work if I can consistently get 12 hour burns running slow and low.

Sherwood, I have done that before, I kind of get upset with myself if the propane backup kicks in. Sounds like that progress can rip heat fast when you open it up a bit.

 

A few weeks ago, I had the gasket around the secondary air intake blow out. That is the middle air intake as shown in the pic below. I had to remove that air intake panel (shown in white in the pic), and replace the gasket around the center intake. I noticed the 2 side intakes (I have marked primary air intakes) go to the sides of the stove, and then disappear. From the 2nd pic from Woodstock showing the internal workings of the PH, those feed the glass airwash and the center hole in the front (although I have yet to figure out how the air gets to that hole?). The center (secondary air intake) feeds the secondary baffle plate and when you close the air control knob completely, that section is completely 99% closed for the most part. The 2 primary air intakes however stay open just a crack, even when the air is shut completely down. This is done by a simple rod going all the way thru the middle of all 3 intakes, and attached to this rod is 3 "blades" (1 for each intake opening) which turns with the rod and closes or opens the intake opening when the handle/rod is rotated. The two primary "blades" are slightly angled a few degree's off so when the center one is closed and can't be moved any futher, they are left slightly open. Interesting design.

What I would love to talk to Woodstock about is doing is, redesigning that control mechanism. OR better yet, just offering a 2nd more expensive option for it. This design would make this a bit more mechanical, or geared for lack of a better word. They could make the control handle instead of rotating the rod directly, rotate a gear or two which would then be connected to the rod. This would give you more movement and control at say the last 20% of it (as requested above via the IS control). They could also add in detents (10 or 20 detents or clicks) so you know which "setting" you are on. You could then tell the wife, "close it completely and then go up 5 clicks" for example. I would have no problem paying a decent amount for this "upgrade" option, and suspect others would as well. What do you guys think?

It would be a easy thing to design and make, and it would be very easy for anyone to install. You just remove the 8 bolts, pull the existing "control panel" off, spread on some stove cement and bolt the new one on. It would take anyone 10 minutes.

 

We're running both the Progress Hybrid and the Ideal Steel. Both with chimneys at 30+ feet and in Vermont, so we have the cold temps you're looking for. Both stoves are new for us as of this heating season.

We get a bit more of a run time out of a full load the Ideal Steel - a bit of a better coal bed in the morning on reload, for example. But they're awfully close as far as performance is concerned. I do think the IS is a bit more controllable. It's easier to bring the temperature down if the stove gets too hot. You can shut the secondaries down pretty easily, which I can't always do with the PH.

Let me know if there is anything more specific you're looking for as far as performance is concerned.

 

Interesting, two stoves with two stacks running the same wood. You will have to post some observations as this winter wears on. Sounds like you have the perfect trial setup to see which one wins out.

Question for you, did you get the decked out IS with the soapstone liner?

 

Don't forget the one big variable in comparing stoves - same operator!

We did get "the works" package deal on the IS. We wanted to customize it. I thought it might make the transition to having two new wood stoves introduced into the house a little more palatable to the rest of the family.

The only difference on the stoves in our house is in the liners. The PH has a new, insulated 6" rigid liner, while the liner for the IS is an older insulated 8".

A few items of note:
* so far, the cat seems to be staying cleaner on the IS
* the IS does invariably dump a bunch of ash out onto the ash lip, so keeping the hearth clean is harder in my (short) experience running these stoves
* I do detect a smoky smell sometimes on the PH, haven't experienced that with the IS

I'll finish this one off on the note that I *love* both of these stoves. You can't go wrong with Woodstock Soapstone. I ran a Vermont Castings when I was younger, and it took me twenty years to recover from that exercise in frustration. (Apologies to any happy VC owners out there).

 

Is the smoke smell coming from or by the loading door on the progress by chance?

 

I haven't been able to tell where it's coming from yet. It's not always there either. I have to give a call to Woodstock.

 

Mine was. The key word is "was". I installed the loading door smoke smell kit, and ALL my smell went away. It's just a new door gasket, an extra gasket over the lip of the hinge side, and a little piece of metal over the channel on the hing side of the door (between the hinges). Worked like a charm.

 

Those holes are actually the primary air, not the secondary air. The secondary air only comes out of the holes lining the top of the stove (the stainless baffle which acts like "burn tubes"). Maybe that was just a typo on your part?? Anyway, check out the pics I posted from Woodstock of the PH cutaway....

Sherwood,
In an earlier post you mentioned having to clean the clogged cat every 2 or 3 weeks. After reading your process above, I think you may be jumping the gun on turning the bypass after a reload. You are turning when the flue gas hits 500, which means your assuming the CAT is also 500. But that may not be the case. Remember when the bypass is open, the exhaust/hot gas does not go thru the cat obviously. This means the cat itself is not necessarily 500 deg. Yet. It may only be 300 or 400. The cat will not light up until it is 500, not the gas passing thru it at 500. I bring this up because last year I was getting a clogged cat every few weeks. I was using the stove pipe temp to turn the bypass, when the outside of the pipe hit 260, assuming the gas was then over 500. Well, the gas probably was 500, but I now suspect the CAT was not 500, it was somewhere below that until the stove heated up a bit more.

I have since started waiting for the back of the stove top (the cast iron) to hit the 260+ mark before turning the bypass and I have noticed a significant cleaner CAT. I have yet to have anything on the cat this year, last year at this point I had cleaned it(it was getting clogged) 4 or 5 times already. I also notice the stove pipe is at 300+ waaaaaay quicker than the stove top hitting the 260 mark. Just a thought for you...

 

Stove top at 450, red oak and black locust. Great room temps 92! Blast furnace! If I knew how to make steel, I could do it right now. Anyone from Pittsburgh on here?

 

Got the new stove up to 520 this morning after getting it installed and broke in yesterday. It's currently 5 degrees, snowing hard, with 30 mph winds here in Western Michigan.

 

Thanks - loose use of the term on my part. The PH has one hole and the IS has two. I think, from discussions with Woodstock, that is part of the fix that allows the IS to do lower burns without the smokey backpuffing.

 

Interesting... how far apart are the two holes? As Sherwood posed, I too have not had a small "backpuff" in many moons (2 years really). First, my "puffs" were never smokey, I never had smoke come out of the PH, but if I shut the air down 100% early in a burn (after a re-load), the stove would go black and after a minute the entire stove would light up at once and make a low level "pooooffff" noise. But I quickly figured out you just can't shut the air down 100%, if you crack it ever so slightly, you keep a small flame going somewhere in the box (usually under the front log either on one side or the other, or in the center where the air hole is) and you never get any of that. Once you understand that, you should never see that again.

It's amazing to me what goes on with that little hole. I mean, that hole is only what, a 1/4" or 1/2", and yet you can make the log/coals in front of it look like a foundry. It amazes me how much air you can have come thru that little hole, and what a difference it makes.

Last night after I posted that picture above, I had an amazing "curtain" of flame coming down the glass clear across the stove. ALL the airwash air (the air that comes down from the top of the glass) was lit up and flowing down the glass! That was a really nice show I had never seen before. It was kinda weird looking, with light flames rolling down the glass instead of up!! I see the flames blowing down out of the secondary's all the time, but that is different as they are like a torch with pressure behind them. These flames were just lazy soft flames just slowly rolling down the glass like a curtain from the top being dropped across the glass. I tried get pictures of it, but they were not coming out for some reason. I think it occurred because I had packed the stove very tight in the back, all the way up to the baffle, so there was no room for it to burn back there.

Anyone else ever see that?

 

Thanks for the note. I have been loading into a hot stove, over 250. I'm pretty sure the cat is still hot. But a good point, especially for the shoulder season. The flue damper is making a big difference in the ash flying around my firebox.

 

Sherwood I did an experiment last night, I hooked the manometer to the stack read .20-.22" of water and then swung the damper shut and it read .08" of water which is just a touch on the high side for chimney draw. I had enough air control on the fireview without the damper to make it run a solid 11 hour burn on a full load in cat only mode stove top was 220 on reload, peak burn was 530.