In loving memory of Kenis D. Keathley 6/4/81 - 3/27/22 Loving father, husband, brother, friend and firewood hoarder Rest in peace, Dexterday

Hand Filing 360, or, How I Came Full Circle after 30 years of Sharpening

Discussion in 'Chainsaws and Power Equipment' started by Boog, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. Hedgerow

    Hedgerow

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,495
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    I used a dremel on a chain yesterday just for grins...
    File removes material better, but I can see how a dremel could be used for good results.. But like everything else, knowing what you need to make a cutter perform, is the most important thing...
    And it's just hard to beat a file.. Even if its the wrong size, you can make a tooth cut in a pinch...
     
  2. charlie

    charlie

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    997
    Location:
    Schoharie, NY
    I never did run a chisel chain where you needed a square file to sharpen... I believe from looking into it some years ago,, you actually file from the outside of the cutter in, just the opposite of what you normally would do on semi chisel chain, etc..
     
    MasterMech likes this.
  3. Hedgerow

    Hedgerow

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,495
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    Yes.. From the point inward.
    square1.jpg

    square2.jpg

    Sorry for the blurry pics... Hard to focus that close with the phone..
     
    mdavlee and charlie like this.
  4. charlie

    charlie

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    997
    Location:
    Schoharie, NY
    Looks like those cutters will zip through wood pretty fast..
     
    mdavlee likes this.
  5. DaveGunter

    DaveGunter

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    3,894
    Likes Received:
    22,936
    Location:
    Far Away Ranch, Meadowbrook Forest
    Most helpful chain sharpening post. I was ready to buy a grinder, because I can never seem to get that brand new chain feel. I tried your Mennonite friends technique yesterday, still not at that brand new chain feel, but the results are the best yet by far. I will forego the grinder for now.
     
    Mitch Newton and Boog like this.
  6. Hedgerow

    Hedgerow

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,495
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    Good to hear!!!
    Keep at it, and you'll be making them cut faster and smoother than the factory can!!
     
    mdavlee likes this.
  7. capetownkg

    capetownkg

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    797
    Likes Received:
    3,147
    Location:
    southern, MD
    Awesome post. With my new saw purchase I also bought the file and guide to hand file. Plan on learning the ways after many times taking chains to get sharpened.
     
    Boog likes this.
  8. charlie

    charlie

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    997
    Location:
    Schoharie, NY
    Nice thing about learning to sharpen your chains yourself, you'll stay right on top of your chains as soon as you notice they are a little dull and not wait until they are really dull , then taking them to get sharpened... plus it will save wear on your bar keeping your chains touched up and sharp.. You'll be rewarded big time learning to sharpen! Stick with it and you'll just keep getting better and better... your learning a lost art so to speak.... Your chains will last a long time as well, sharpening by hand,, another plus..:thumbs:
     
    Boog and thistle like this.
  9. mdavlee

    mdavlee

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    4,380
    Likes Received:
    10,479
    I've never had a chain ground by a shop. My friends uncle showed me how to file a chain when I was in high school. We cleared a couple acres by hand for shooting lanes using a husky 350 and atvs for skidders. Hand filing is more rewarding to me any way. Hand filing a good square chain is a great feeling when it pulls big chips:axe:
     
  10. swags

    swags Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,455
    Likes Received:
    13,240
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    You know Boog after reading your very informative post about using a hand file I thought back how Ive been frustrated with my grinder recently b/c of the wheel wearing out and getting hard to get a good edge on the chains. And it is not that great of a sharpener. So I pulled out the one file I have (325) and worked on the 026 chain that my friend cut with the other day, I think he hit the dirt, cause I picked it up to make a cut when we were almost done and it was DULL! I forgot how quick I could get a chain sharpened with a hand file. I went out and tested it out and it threw better chips then when I had been sharpening with the grinder. I think I may just go back to the file as well and sell the grinder.
     
  11. MasterMech

    MasterMech The Mechanical Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    26,024
    Location:
    Greenville County SC
    Remember that grinders are technically production equipment and are only as good as the operator. Someone who does not understand the angles and technique that hand filing requires, will struggle to get more than mediocre results from a grinder as well.

    I personally feel I'm getting pretty decent chains from a grinder. And I'm getting better every time I sit down with the thing. But with well over $800 worth of equipment, one would hope that was the case no? :D
     
    mdavlee, Boog and Hedgerow like this.
  12. swags

    swags Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,455
    Likes Received:
    13,240
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Ya MasterMech I hope you get a good edge, actually I know you do. The chain I got from you is in great shape although I don't remember looking if it was knew but I don't think it was. I know a grinder can do a good job on the chains. But after playing with a cheaper grinder I think as little sharpening as I need to do I'll just hand file. I may change my mind later some time again but really don't want to spend a lot of money on a grinder right now.
     
    DexterDay and MasterMech like this.
  13. Oliver1655

    Oliver1655

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    982
    Location:
    Central Missouri
    Grinders have their place.
    - Badly damaged chains: Rocks, metal, stump work, ...
    - Raker heights. Use your file & guide to set your reference tooth' raker height. Then I have a 1/4" wheel dressed with a quarter round recess/cove into it on the grinder. Place the reference raker under the wheel then set the depth stop on the grinder & you can do your rakers in no time. I generally have several chains I do at a time.

    But so does hand filing! Can file a normally dulled chain on shorter bars as quickly if not faster than changing a chain. On longer bars, if rushed will change the chain, if not, I use the time while I sharpen the chain to have a drink & snack as needed.

    *** Note *** This hand sharpening challenged person, ME, recently have become reasonable adapt at hand filing largely due to using a Pfred CS-X/Stihl 2in1 filing system. It setts the raker height at the same time it sharpens. You just have to round over the leading edge occasionally after sharpening has been completed. There are round files on both sides. Sharpen the cutters on one side then just flip the guide over to do the cutters on the other side.

    Pferd CS-X.jpg Handles are angled to be parallel to the bar. Simple to use. Stihl 2in1.jpg In the center: Round, Flat, Round files. The end snaps open to make changing the files easy. At $40 it is twice the price of some of the other filing systems, but since it does the rakers at the same time, it is worth it to me.
     
    Hedgerow likes this.
  14. MasterMech

    MasterMech The Mechanical Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    26,024
    Location:
    Greenville County SC
    Swags, your chain was not new IIRC. But it had at least 80% left in it and it was sharp. :D

    I should mention that you don't have to have a $800 grinder like mine to get fabulous results. I can sit down at any Oregon 511 type grinder ( I was taught on an old 511) and bang out a chain that's just as good as factory if not better.
     
    Hedgerow likes this.
  15. charlie

    charlie

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    997
    Location:
    Schoharie, NY
    If using a power grinder for myself, I would mark one cutter with a paint dot, take dial calipers and quickly go around the loop once , finding the shortest cutter, keep zeroing the dial caliper reading to zero as you find a shorter cutter, then set it to read plus .010 at the end.. Now just start with any cutter and slowly adjust the cutting wheel stop , until after checking each time you touched that one cutter, that it finally gives you a reading of zero on the dial caliper, now just grind all the rest of the cutters and you will be removing the least amount of material needed to make them all even.. In my eyes quick to set and importantly, a long lived chain, if,,, your going to power grind..
     
  16. Hedgerow

    Hedgerow

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,495
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    Which goes back to my original statement... If you know what it takes to make a chain cut, and why, then you can use whatever method suits you best, or is convenient at the time.
    So it's a real good thing to practice and read, and practice some more...
    That, and there is some pride in making a real nice cutting chain.
    Pride in a job well done...
     
  17. charlie

    charlie

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    997
    Location:
    Schoharie, NY
    Be nice if dealers could spend a few minutes with a new chainsaw purchase, show the new owner how to basically hand sharpen.. What happens not doing this, the owner will burn the bar rails up trying to get ever last bit of cutting out of the chain, knowing he has to take it off and run it to be sharpened..
     
    mdavlee likes this.
  18. Hedgerow

    Hedgerow

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,495
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    I do know a fellow here that cuts and sells firewood...
    Probably 100 loads a year.
    He'll touch a chain up once in a while, but when it ceases to cut good enough for him, he just pitches it, and puts on new...
    He's got it all figured out how many loads he can cut with a new chain, and figures it's just part of the cost of doing business... Funny guy... I've thought about offering to sharpen up a couple for him, but then thought better of it...
    Not sure I could ever change his mind... And I don't really want him dropping off gobs of thrashed chains for me to deal with...
     
    mdavlee likes this.
  19. charlie

    charlie

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    997
    Location:
    Schoharie, NY
    I read once that to get the longest bar and sprocket life, you should start with 3 chains..

    As one gets dull you switch them out until you now need to sharpen the chains.. you can also sharpen them as they dull but put the next new one on..

    They said doing this lets the chains kind of all wear in the sprocket and bar at a pretty even pace... So your not putting a new chain on a bar and sprocket that have gone through 5 chains, wearing one completely out at a time... Myself, I'm guilty of just owning one chain.. That seems to last me a very long time the way I sharpen..

    Back when I worked for Harley and before the belt drives, you never installed a new chain on the old drive and rear wheel sprockets.. It made a lot of noise and shortened the new chain life do to a poor fit..
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
    cmag likes this.
  20. swags

    swags Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,455
    Likes Received:
    13,240
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Or better yet have him give you the throwaway chains!
     
    Boog, charlie, Hedgerow and 2 others like this.