New guy with a problem from last year

Here is a couple pictures of my chimney

 

The manual is lacking lots of info. It suggests there’s an adjustable air control. Yet the stove is classified as a single burn rate appliance and a user states there is no air control. No schematics show any controls on this stove.

Have a sneaking suspicion this stove was designed solely around the epa test. Study the testing procedure and build a stove that can pass that test without spending extra money or R&D. Good for the test, bad for the consumer. There were a few units designed this way to skirt the epa. Think they were classified more as open burning fireplaces. Don’t know much about them.
This seems to be a variant of that idea moving towards more of a woodstove idea.
Or maybe there is an air control???

Instructions also suggest small loads, hot fires, frequently reloaded. Yuck. Hard for many people to quit their job just to feed the stove.
If I’m half right you certainly need to be burning hardwoods. You’ll figure out your downdraft issues with all the info here. Not sure that stove is ever gonna make you happy in the long run tho.

I never suggest a damper on an epa stove. In this case it’s probably warranted. It didn’t crack your bricks. Besides rough handling and poor manufacturing another way to crack bricks is going from extremely cold to hot real fast. When masonry (bricks included) gets near single digits temp they cannot expand fast enough to avoid cracking. It’s possible your downdraft can chill those bricks enough. Not sure if you’ve operated the stove in those temps but it’s possible.
Keep that pipe damper fully closed during non operation. May help a little to stop some of the downdraft coming down.
Are your ceramic plates up top in good condition? I hear those things are very fragile.

http://pdf.lowes.com/useandcareguides/012685201603_use.pdf

 

My entire chimney is about 1/4 of what you have. That's a lot of cold, dense air in that. A sheet or two of paper won't move it, imo.

It'll be interesting to read what others, with chimney's that tall, suggest.

 

I think you just nailed it...this is a steel fireplace more than a stove. Single burn rate for sure. Any mention of adjusting air in the manual is just because ussc used alot of "boilerplate" to "write" that manual...I had a vogelzang stove and much of this manual is exactly the same.
A better stove may still have draft issues on cold startup, but performance would be better once fire is rolling.

 

My sister has a below grade chimney setup just like that...we had to put a steel window well around it and a steel roofing "cap" on it to keep the rain from filling up the pit

 

Take a good look at pages 15-16 of the manual. They explain a bit more on why the stove is down-drafting. I also have to wonder if as Jo says excellently above since it is a set heater, your efficiency is only at 66.6 % for a reason, your burns will only be that long as there’s no air control. Burning of hardwoods will help but sine the oxygen is federally controlled, you won’t be able to get the burns that a wood-stove that has that air control which allows the air inside to be used efficiently. There’s a big difference in watching secondary burns in a stove as the fire has more glow to it and flames change under that lowered oxygen level.

 

Fixed it for you...when turning down, the primary air decreases, and the secondary increases (in most stoves)

 

Yes thank you! Forgot my terminology a bit.

 

I have a similar setup for chimney and mine drafts like a freight train..
In first pic do you want rise from 90 on top of stove thru wall vent?

 

It doesn’t mention that there. I meant that wood stoves that do have this control but this one..is set as a fireplace setting as brenndatomu being considerate that this stove likely runs only on primary air and no secondary. Just like how a flue runs open, it’s going to draw that cold air back down as he’a running that from the basement. Cold air drops as it’s more dense than warm air.Explains his smoke filled house as the fire dies down, the pipe doesn’t seem like it would stay warm enough. Would an insulated chase work here??

Wood stoves have less impact as they close more tight running with secondary air, less of an open spot. I had a drafty little house so while it kept my house warm, sealing the house was not feasible. That was all over. But I had burns for hours. 4-5 were a norm.

I don’t want to jump the gun here SD Steve but is this looking like the heater you want to keep? Lots of wind in your area?

 

I'm seeing the combination of uncontrolled combustion air along with the exceptionally tall stack as a double whammy. Once that chimney gets drawing, the fire really takes off. The flue damper might help, but it's not the answer. Time to shop for a better stove. It probably won't cost as much as that stack did.

 

Read what MrWhoopee said twice, I think I agree.. I had a NC 13 type that after 3 hours needed a match!! No coals left., very frustrating to heat with..

 

You say the stove drafts well when it gets up and running. This would indicate to me that your flue installation is OK. You have two stories above ground and the stove is in the basement. The problem arises because no house is air tight. The upper two stories are warmed by your primary gas, electric or perhaps heating oil appliances. This warm air is escaping via cracks and voids that any house has. This creates a small vacuum within the house that has to be filled. The basement now has this convenient cold air replacement ducting in the form of your flue pipe. The outside air flows down and in to replace warmer upstairs air that is escaping outside. A Flue damper would help to reduce this flow when the stove was not in fire but you would still have to overcome that slug of cold air in the pipe that starts dropping into the basement when you opened the damper to start a fire. Older and poorly insulated houses more commonly have this kind of problem. It is accentuated by the stove being in the basement. The smoke in the house at the end of a burn is from the reverse draft reasserting itself as the stove and basement cool and the upstairs are still warmer and bleeding heat. I think your only hope is in keeping the stove and inside piping warm enough to provide a constant slight updraft at all times. I have heard of draft inducers but don't know how they work. I suspect that they do much the same as a hair dryer or propane torch. The suitability of your stove is another issue entirely. Just my $.02 worth.

 

What part of the southern Dakotah Territory are you in? Years ago I lived in Summit.

 

Ok, so I'm going to try and answer everyone's questions as best I can.
As far as air controls on my stove.......there aren't any. The are 5 rectangular holes roughly 1 inch across and half an inch tall, (primary air)And there are 2 holes on the lower left and right sides, same size, that go into square tubes running vertically, then going into a thinner circular tube running left to right inside the stove (secondary air) Here are a couple pictures. I used a quarter for refference.


Ok, so the way I light my fires is to open the damper and use a couple 3-4 pieces of pine with some cardboard and newspaper and get a little fire going. After 20-30 minutes its usually made a decent coal bed and I spread that around flat. That's when I start adding my hardwoods. I place 3-5 pieces of wood in depending on the size, and after about 10 mins or less the fire is usually roaring. Everything in the stove is fully aflame. Then I close the damper and the flames visibly slow down. And like I said about 2 hours after that, flames are gone and I'm left with just coals. Then I open the damper move most of the coals to the front and reload. Closing the damper when most the wood is burning again.
So metalcuttr, I think you are spot on with your analysis of my problems. And I bet my fire bricks cracked during extremely cold weather, a reverse draft making my stove extremely cold, then having a fast hot fire.
One of the thoughts I've had is trying to figure out a way to plug the primary air holes in the front of the stove and having it only pull air in through the secondary air tube. But I have been stumped on how to do that successfully and multiple times.
Oh, and Greenstick, I live in Hecla South Dakota.

 

Welcome. Lot of good info on this site.......best there is in my opinion.

Had a similar problem as your's a while back.................told the wife to shut up................needed the hot air up the chimney